White Winter Black Night is the title of one of the novels I’m writing. Simon & Schuster will publish the book in 2014.
Published by Simon & Schuster… how damn cool is that? Simon & Schuster is one of the most respected and largest publishers in the world. To get a book published by Simon & Schuster is a big deal for a writer, any writer.
I’m a writer.
Well, now I’m a writer.
Growing up there was nothing and I mean nothing I loved more than reading. I read everything and when I say everything I mean everything. It started with comics and once I realized how wonderful reading was it started me on an odyssey that still exists today. At present I’m listening to two audio books in two different cars. I’m reading two hard cover books and have no idea how many books I’m reading on my iPad.
Becoming a writer was a fantasy I had every so often. How cool would it be to become a writer? Making a living making shit up?
How cool? So cool ice would be considered hot next to that coolness.
OK, I have made a living making stuff up. Comics, television shows, reading programs blah, blah, blah and blah. But writing a book is the pinnacle of any writer’s career. Especially for someone that never thought he would be a writer.
I mentioned that the novel I’m writing for Simon & Schuster is one of the novel’s I’m writing. I actually have three more in the pipeline for two other publishers. I’m not writing about this to impress you (although it will) I’m writing about it as example of what you can do with a lot of desire a little luck and above all a good idea.
Not my good idea, the good idea of a young woman named Danielle Hobbs. Danielle is a multitalented artist. She’s a world-class choreographer, dancer, actress and singer. Like I said, artist. She reached out to me to pitch me a project. I was just not interested.
Her artist resume was impressive as shit, she had choreographed for Beyonce, Shakira, Disney and a slew of other major playa’s. Her singing and acting resume was just as impressive but I could have given a fish.
If I had a dollar for every major artist from other media be they singers, actors, hip hop artists or magicians (yes magicians) who thought just because they had a name and a following they could be a success in comics or animation I’d be so rich last weeks Powerball prize would be my pocket change. When I say major artists I mean major artists. You would recognize every single person I’d list.
I would list them but more than a few are hip-hop artists and I don’t want to be shot so you will have to do without the names.
Danielle after hounding me for a while finally got me into a meeting. A meeting I was going to be done with in 10 minutes. I figured that’s how long I’d wait into her pitch before I told her (nicely) that the idea had:
Been Done
Sucked.
Been done and sucked when it was done.
I never got to say any of the above.
Her idea was great.
The audience she wants to reach with it is underserved and this could really be something. Danielle has a really good chance of seeing her idea realized. I have to be protective of my time so I only feel a bit like a dick because I did not give Danielle a chance to meet with me earlier.
There are a lot of artists dreaming about careers in the comics and related media that read ComicMix. Remember your dream is just as valid as anyone’s.
Or as Danielle’s creation Dani girl would say, “Dream it! Do it!”
Around here, we often talk about superheroes. Today, however, I want to talk about real heroes. The GI Film Festival, a non-profit educational organization “dedicated to sharing the military experience in and out of the arena of war” took place in D.C. on May 6 – 12, and I attended one of the events.
The Festival, which “presents films…that honor the heroic stories of the American Armed Forces and the worldwide struggle for freedom and liberty,” gave me a chance to experience a collection of short films from Canada, the U.K., Germany, Denmark, Australia, and the U.S. at the “Celebrating the International Warrior Spirit” screening. It was an amazing (and sobering) experience, and one that served as a reminder that, for every superhero we read about or flock to see on the big screen, there are millions of real unsung heroes out there who (putting aside whether we agree with why they are fighting or not) put their lives on the line for civilians every day.
Every film in the collection I viewed, which you can read about here under May 8, was worthy of being there. The four that had the most impact for me, however, were those which dealt with the aftermath of being in combat – with PTSD, and with the attempts to return to “normal” life after being a soldier and after seeing terrible things or losing others to death. It’s a topic that’s at least acknowledged in modern times, but one that is still not fully understood by those who haven’t actually experienced it. However, film as a medium can be particularly well-suited to drawing in viewers and causing them to identify with a character’s experiences. The films that examined this subject, Gefallen; M.I.L.O. – Goodbye 10; The Sound of Willie Nelson’s Guitar; and Fallout, open a window into the minds of a few of those who have returned from combat, and the importance of that to our cultural understanding cannot be understated. Every one of us, if we are not in the military, knows a friend or a family member who is or has been; and understanding just a tiny bit of what might be going on inside their minds when we get them back from the horror-show that is war can help us know how to be more understanding and supportive of them.
One of the films, Fallout by Peter Carruthers, did a particularly excellent job of showing the experiences of a “normal” day through the eyes of a British Army veteran (and you can watch a short trailer for it here). Literally “seeing” how terrifying or confusing walking down a perfectly ordinary city street can be for someone with PTSD, or the way in which a veteran can be trying so hard to reacclimate to his family and former life, and still fail, was both wrenching and enlightening.
The other film that had the greatest impact for me was actually a music video, Goodbye 10, by Danish rapper and soldier M.I.L.O.. Being a rapper and a soldier who’s seen combat is a pretty rare combination as far as I know, and M.I.L.O. has used his unique mixture of military experience and musical talent to produce Danish rap songs and music videos that are not only quality work, but also art with an important message. Goodbye 10, which you can watch with English subtitles here, gives M.I.L.O.’s perspective on returning to civilian life from war in Afghanistan in 2010, and manages to encompass many important aspects of a veteran’s post-war experience and outlook in just four minutes of music. It is also the follow-up to the award-winning music video Goodbye 09, which told the story of M.I.L.O going from civilian life in Denmark to the war in Afghanistan. Both videos are excellent and well worth a watch.
Moving from the wars of the present into the past, although I was unable to fit any other GI Film Festival events into my schedule this year, I happily did still get to view a documentary that was featured at the Festival and that I have been looking forward to for literally years now, since it also had a screening at The National Press Club which I was able to attend. That documentary is The Ghost Army, a WWII film by best-selling author and award-winning documentary producer Rick Beyer.
The Ghost Army tells the extraordinary story of one of the most unique military units of WWII – a U.S. tactical deception unit, the 23rd Headquarters Special Troops, which was responsible for staging more than twenty battlefield deceptions, beginning in Normandy and ending along the Rhine River, and using everything from rubber tanks and sound effects to carefully crafted fake radio transmissions to dupe Hitler’s army. The Ghost Army consisted of 1,100 men, but using deception, was able to impersonate other U.S. Army units and appear to consist of up to forty thousand men. The unit, which had a high percentage of artists and other creative people within its ranks, is estimated to have saved tens of thousands of soldiers’ lives with its deceptions, and to have been instrumental in several of the European theatre’s Allied victories. Amazingly, the story of the Ghost Army was not declassified until 1996.
I’ve been fascinated with the story of the Ghost Army ever since I first read about it several years ago, and have been looking forward to Rick’s documentary since the moment I learned it was in the works. With excellent narration and storytelling, archival footage and photographs, interviews with Ghost Army veterans and military and WWII experts, and images of some of the many works of art that Ghost Army veterans sketched or painted during the war, The Ghost Army documentary was a real treat to experience, and I highly recommend it. It was also great to meet and hear from Ghost Army veteran Jack Masey, who was present at the screening and shared some of his wartime experiences in person after the film.
You can see Jack Masey and other veterans in the excellent trailer for the documentary here, and best of all, the documentary is premiering tonight on PBS, so you can watch the whole thing on TV! (And if you miss it, you can also watch it on the PBS website once it has premiered.)
So check out The Ghost Army tonight on PBS; and until next time, Servo Lectio!
As you may know if you’ve read my column recently (and if you haven’t, what’s wrong with you?? Well, don’t worry – you can always catch up here), I’ve declared it Interview Central, following on my time at Awesome Con DC. There, I interviewed the amazing voice actors Phil LaMarr and Billy West. Both were delightful, so if you haven’t gotten a chance to check out those columns (and/or audio recordings) yet, scoot on over to those links and do so!
While at Awesome Con, I was also happy to be able to catch up with the very talented cartoonist Nick Galifianakis (and to obtain this cartoon for my wall. Hah! I love it!). If you’re not already familiar with Nick’s work, you really should check it out, pronto, because it is wonderful stuff. Both insightful and hilarious, and sometimes hitting uncomfortably close to home, Nick’s relationship-oriented cartoons regularly accompany the nationally syndicated advice column Carolyn Hax, and have been a regular staple of The Washington Post since 1997. Nick has also previously published his work as an editorial cartoonist and illustrator for USA Today, US News & World Report, and various other nationally distributed periodicals.
In 2001, Nick illustrated Carolyn Hax’s book, Tell Me About It: Lying, Sulking, Getting Fat … and 56 Other Things NOT to Do While Looking for Love, and in 2010 he published a collection of his cartoons entitled If You Loved Me, You’d Think This Was Cute: Uncomfortably True Cartoons About You. (FYI, his book is available for purchase on Amazon or you can get a signed copy via Nick’s website. I highly recommend picking it up). In 2006, Nick was nominated for the Reuben Award for Outstanding Cartoonist of the Year in the Newspaper Illustration category, and in 2012, won the Reuben Award for Advertising Illustration.
To me, one thing that makes Nick’s cartoons so wonderful is the way they manage to come across as both very personal and fairly universal at the same time. He also has a unique talent for distilling an entire relationship issue or situation down into one illustrated panel, which hits the reader with all of the impact that most people couldn’t convey in several pages. I find that talent fascinating, and am happy to have had the chance to talk with him about his work and his process, and to be able to share that chat with you here. So read on for more details!
Nick, thank you for doing this interview. Let’s start at the beginning – when did you first get interested in art and/or start drawing?
I started drawing like many other artists – my whole life, I don’t remember not drawing. Any flat surface would do.
And how did you end up doing the style that you do for the relationship cartoons, and do you do other styles as well?
I don’t really think of them as styles. You draw well enough to get your point across – whatever it is you’re trying to say at that time is how you draw. Sometimes that may require something leaner; or something with more volume; and you have to strike that balance. But you draw well enough to say what you’re trying to say. If you start showing off with your draftsmanship prowess, you get in the way of what you’re trying to say. Unless that’s what you’re trying to say. So when people say, “I can only draw stick figures” – well that actually might be all you need to be able to draw to make your point.
True! You focus a lot on the relationships between people in your cartoons in The Washington Post, which accompany the advice column written by Carolyn Hax. How did that come about?
I was a political cartoonist before that. I started in small papers and then worked my way up to USA Today. And then I actually sort of became bored with political cartoons, for a couple of reasons. One was that when there’s an issue of the day, you know that tomorrow four hundred different cartoonists are all going to gun for that same exact issue. There’s going to be overlap, and there’s something about the lack of uniqueness in the target that bothered me. And also, if you were to look at a political cartoon from the late 1800s, and it’s on, for example, the budget or the economy, it’s going to be quite similar to one of the ones you see today.
So I got bored with that and wanted to try something else. I had always noticed people and their interactions. Always. That dynamic has just always held my attention for some reason. And so when Carolyn created her advice column, the editor, Peggy Hackman, suggested that I do a little icon to go with it – but I wasn’t interested in doing an icon, so I did a whole sort of conceptual cartoon connected to the column, but also one that stood alone. And it satisfied something in me. It seemed to work out as a great partnership – still does, thank goodness. Carolyn is absolutely brilliant; hands-down the best advice columnist – not only out there, but probably ever. She’s been a partner long-term, outside of our marriage and then outside of our divorce. It’s like the institution between us stands alone.
And how does that work, when you’re doing each individual cartoon that goes with a column? Does she send you the column first, or do you sometimes have an idea and she writes about that?
No; she sends me a column, then I read through and I edit the column. And I write a bunch of stuff down, and she incorporates it. And then I do a cartoon to accompany it.
I have to know – as someone who writes relationship cartoons, do your friends always come and ask you for relationship advice?
No.
They don’t do that? Really??
Close friends rarely do; unless things are completely out of whack; then they do. But the people who do ask are friends who are sort of the second circle of friends; or people who you’ve just met who you’ve become friendly with. People that I’ve known since I was seven – they don’t ask me about that stuff. Not unless everything is completely falling apart.
That’s interesting. What is the process when you’re having an idea? Is it ever because you’ve seen something particular?
Well, I am trying to peg it to a column; but I do have feelings about that kind of thing. Feelings about jealousy…or you know, “How do I feel about this particular situation?” – controlling people; really insecure people; people who talk a lot. So I have a response to that kind of thing, and then it’s a matter of, one, noticing it. People say, “Where do you get your ideas?” Well – I get my ideas the same place you get your ideas. It’s just a matter of noticing that it is indeed an idea. And then there’s how you feel about that idea, and you tap into sort of the “honest portal;” and then once you identify how you feel about that thing, how you’re working out feeling about that thing, then the trick becomes how to express that.
At that stage, I choose to do it for an audience of one person. I choose me; because I figured out that by doing it that way, it guarantees that it’s honest, which, in turn, I believe that the authenticity is recognized by many, many people. As opposed to sitting down and saying, “Okay, here’s the idea, how can I make this appeal to a lot of people?” That’s how you create sitcom television.
So the ideas come from what you’re feeling, and you think about how you react to it?
Totally. It’s literally an audience of one.
Do you ever see other people doing something and start from there, or is it always with you? Like, when you’re observing other people, do you sometimes start from there?
Sure; all the time. Sure – you know, how people interact; how they hold hands; how they cut each other off; the unrealistic expectations they have of each other. But always it’s how I feel, how I can relate to it. Where am I in the thing – and then that helps me get it across to everybody else.
That’s fascinating. Well obviously, we know where to find your steady work, which is with the advice column in the Post; but tell me, are you working on other projects as well? Are you working on another book, or other projects?
Yes, I have a few things that are going to be coming out in the next year or year-and-a-half. One is an “art of” book that’s not my own. One is an art book that is my own. One is a World War II book.
Ooh – what’s your angle on that one?
I’ve interviewed hundreds of people who are now over the age of ninety, who either witnessed, were around, or actually took part in this particular battle in Greece. So that’s the focus.
Wow, that’s really neat. Are you going to illustrate that too, or will it be just prose?
No, just prose.
Well I look forward to that. What’s the “art of” book, can you tell us?
I can’t say yet; but it’s going to be a huge book, with a lot of impact.
Cool! And so people can find out about that from your website?
Yes. Everybody will find out about that there.
Great! Well, thanks, Nick; this has been awesome.
• • • • •
And thanks to everyone who’s been reading these great interviews! Check out Nick’s work on his site or The Washington Post’s site, or in his book, and as always, until next week, Servo Lectio!
I’ve never wanted anything more than I wanted to get into the High School Of Art and Design. I was obsessed from the time I found out there existed in the world an art high school and I found that out in the seventh grade.
Yes, I’ve wanted other things in my life but A&D (which I’m sure you are sick of me writing about) was so important to me for so long when it happened it was literally a dream come true. I know, I know, I keep reminiscing about my high school so much so I feel like mentioning A&D again would be like mentioning Lord Voldemort at Harry Potter’s wedding.
OK. I get it, it won’t happen again.
Around 20 years ago (when I was five) I began to want something else pretty badly. That “other thing” was my childhood dream but as an adult I began another obsession that became a dream and now that dream has come true.
I’ve been invited to attend the San Diego Comic Con as a special guest.
For over 25 years I’ve been known as the Susan Lucci of SDCC. If you don’t know who Susan Lucci is or why that is funny, your pop culture knowledge sucks.
On that note, SDCC is the biggest and most important pop culture event in the world. Being invited to be a guest is a huge honor. That invitation means that you have accomplished something of note in your field and are being recognized for such. I’ve imagined being invited as a special guest at SDCC a zillion times and what I would do when/if it happened.
First thing I’d do is tell everyone!
You may think after reading my rants here on ComicMix telling everyone is what I would do whenever I have something to crow about.
Nope.
Regardless of my seemingly brash and ostentatious writings, media interviews and pick up lines I rarely tell anyone when I’ve been fortunate enough to have a honor bestowed on me. Not sure if I mentioned it here or in my weekly rants on my website, but among quite a few honors, awards, proclamations and arrest warrants I’ve received is an auditorium in a East Orange New Jersey grade school named after me. There was a huge naming ceremony with a marching band (I’m not kidding), the Mayor, other East Orange movers and shakers and media.
I only invited to my naming ceremony my wife. She was my only guest and that was fine with me. My mother to this day won’t let me forget that she was not invited. She’s still pissed and not because she missed being present as a wonderful honor was conferred on her child; nope, she’s pissed because she missed the opportunity to invite her friends to see a wonderful honor being conferred on her child thus scoring major points in the “my child is so much better than your child so suck it” game mother’s play.
I’ve wanted to be a guest at SDCC since the first time I attended 26 years ago (when I was one year old, Jean) subsequently it has been on my mind, my hopes and dreams.
Only once have I wanted something this bad and that was that thing that must not be named.
As faith would have it, the honor I’ve sort in life more (almost) than any other I must turn down. Yes, you read that right. With regards to my San Diego Comic Con International invitation I must turn it down.
I did turn it down.
I refused.
I cannot in good conscious accept their invitation knowing that to do so would doom my lover and first-born child to a horrible death from falling off a cliff. Yes, some sick bastard knowing of my decades long desire to attend SDCC as a guest has given me a choice, save my lover and first-born child or be a guest at SDCC.
Oh wait! I’ve just learned the name of the woman hanging with her child from the cliff. Her name is Billie Jean. Billie Jean is not my lover, she’s just a girl who claims that I am the one but the kid is not my son.
Now I’m faced with an entirely new dilemma!
I’m in Los Angeles. Should I fly to San Diego or take the train?
Looks like it is just Interview Central around here these days, folks. Because following up on last week’s column, in which I briefly recapped my Awesome Con DC experience and posted my interview with the fantastic Phil LaMarr (go read/listen if you missed it last week! Good stuff!), I now get to share with you my Awesome Con DC interview with the excellent Billy West! Hooray!
Even if you somehow haven’t heard the name Billy West, before, I almost guarantee you’ve heard his voice. Voicing everything from classic cartoon characters like Bugs Bunny, Porky Pig, Elmer Fudd, Woody Woodpecker, and Popeye to four of the main characters on Futurama (Philip J. Fry, Professor Farnsworth, Dr. Zoidberg, and Zapp Brannigan), Billy has voiced characters on a myriad of other shows as well, including title characters for Nickelodeon’s Doug and TheRen & Stimpy Show; and is also the current voice of product mascots Red the M&M and Buzz the Honey Nut Cheerios bee. Billy was also one of the voices of The Howard Stern Show from 1989 to 1995, where he did astonishing impressions of everyone from Johnny Carson and Al Michaels to an ailing Lucille Ball. (His Jay Leno is uncanny.) As a voice actor, Billy has an amazing range – going seamlessly from one character and reaction to another; and you can see some fun examples of that here. For a good time, I also recommend the Star Wars Trilogy: The Radio Play video, shot at ECCC last year and featuring Billy and a number of other talented voice actors doing the script of Star Wars in some of their iconic voices (including, for Billy, Stimpy, Fry, Farnsworth, and Zoidberg). My absolute favorite bit is when he does Porky Pig at about 45 minutes in. Seriously. You must watch it.
But quickly! Before I get lost in YouTube again: let’s get to the interview! If you want to listen to the interview (listen to it! He does Richard Nixon’s head in a jar!) you can do so here. Or, you can read the (slightly edited) transcript below!
Hello, this is Emily Whitten for ComicMix, here with Billy West at Awesome Con in DC. Billy, thank you for being here with us – and Billy is busy, so we’re doing this while he eats.
I ain’t that busy; I can talk with a mouth full of vegan sandwich.
That’s fair! So you are such an amazingly storied voice actor, etcetera…
Aww, thank you.
There’s a lot to talk about, but I’m going to try to distill it down a little bit. Let’s start with the earlier things; so – how did you decide to get into voice acting? Because I know you also are and were a musician; so what was the career path there?
Well, I remember I was like a little freak, you know? I was always running around making noises, and doing voices. Every time I wanted to play the piano – we didn’t have one, but if we were at somebody’s house – to me that was a golden opportunity. I just wanted to hear it, touch it, and make it do something; because the sonic world that I had going on in my head would dictate that I would go over there; but the thing was: I couldn’t play. And down comes the lid: “Can you not do that?” I heard that more than any other kid, probably, in the world, “Can you not do that?” And I was always trying stuff; it was peripheral and surreal; abstract stuff, but, you know.
I had a weird childhood. My house was a horror-house, and my dad was just, like, certifiable, and a drunk and a crazy; so I was growing up kind of terrified. And I was very hyper-vigilant. I could tune in to things – like I could tell you what kind of a night I was going to have by the way the car pulled up in the driveway, or the way the key went in the door. I was so in tune with people’s behaviors – you know, out of survival mode. But it also trained me, like a cop. I was becoming an observer; an extreme observer.
So from your experiences, you were able to be observant about people and how they acted and how they behaved, and so that would help you later on?
And I loved radio. Oh, I loved radio so much, because of the voices. And there were still some radio plays going on when I was a kid. There was a radio guy named Stan Frebergthat had a radio show; and he had one of my favorite voice guys on it, whose name was Daws Butler, and he did a lot of the Hanna-Barbera stuff. He was a little ball of fire, this Daws Butler; and I just came to know these people. But there was no way you could know anything about show business in those days; because there was no emphasis on it. That was for “other people.” You know, “Well who?” It was like: nobody in my town. I was such a geek, I had to hunt down the only other kid who had comic books, and he lived on the other side of town. I just set my inner GPS and found him. I just walked and walked until I found him somewhere.
So what kind of comics did you read, when you and this kid were growing up?
Silly stuff; we read the Marvel stuff – I didn’t mean that that was silly – [Marvel and] DC comics were not silly, they were exciting. But, like, Gold Key Comics were silly; there was The Fly, which was Archie Comics, and he was their superhero – and he fell by the wayside because the other machines were a little more happening and powerful. But I had the original issues of some really important comic books. I had secret origins of like, Batman and all of those. They came out around 1960; 1959, maybe 1961.
Do you still have them?
No. No, it went up my nose, heh.
Back in the day?
Yeah.
Well, do you still follow comics these days?
I try to. I like the revamps of stuff they’re doing. Because there’s so much time that has gone by, that these characters have been around, and eventually they’ve got to morph. You know, they’re not going to get older on us, even though they can dance in and out of timeframes, to show old Superman, like where he wound up.
Yeah; they did that, of course.
Yeah! And there are so many comic books that it’s tough to keep track of them.
Do you watch the movies?
I try to go to movies, yeah, when I can. I’m writing a lot, and I stay up late, late into the evening.
Oh, okay, what are you writing right now?
There are a couple of projects that I’ve got going with my partner that I worked with on Ren & Stimpy. His name is Jim Gomez; and we’ve put together five fully developed shows, most of them animated. We’re pitching them around town, and we’ll see what happens. I love doing what I’m doing – you know, I can be an objective fulfillment machine for the rest of my life – but at some point I do want to create or own something, and give myself the objective.
I think all creators feel that way – it just makes sense.
Yeah – I mean, but I will still always go and work for somebody else, probably doing voice-over.
Now you said that you love radio, and you’ve been on the radio – and I know when I was growing up, I heard you on K-Rock; so tell me, what was that experience like? I mean, I used to listen to that in the morning, when I was getting ready for school…
Didn’t you feel like there was subterfuge involved with that? Like you couldn’t just let everybody hear that.
Yeeeaaah; don’t tell my parents, okay? They didn’t like that show; they didn’t like Howard Stern. I had to be subtle about it.
Of course not. Of course not; but the people who listened to it got it. They understood that everything was silly. It was all about being totally silly in the face of the most horrific subjects.
And pushing boundaries.
Yes, pushing boundaries. It was very organic. We didn’t play records. And Howard was a great ringmaster; he knew, okay, when something’s enough. We’d beat it so far, that’s fine, let’s go to commercial and we’ll start something else. He’d always keep things moving.
And how did you end up working there? I know you’d worked in radio before that.
I was in radio in Boston, and I wasn’t a disc jockey. I was very creative, and showcasing the works of others for a living didn’t turn me on; because I would always feel like a curator in a museum. But these disc jockeys were really pompous about playing records, and it’s like, “Dude, you didn’t create the statues; you just dust them.” And I used to get reamed for having that type of attitude. It’s like, “You’re not allowed to unmask these icons,” and it’s like, “Screw you. You don’t do anything.” I was always surly because there was so much phoniness that used to drive me crazy. My heroes were the artists, not people who were famous for some cottage industry reason – like disc jockeys or TV show hosts. They’re not creating anything. So my heroes were never celebrities. It was always artists. And if they happened to be a celebrity that was a byproduct of their great artistic talent.
Right. So being on a show like The Howard Stern Show, where you got to interact and do your own thing, that was what you were looking for.
That was very appealing to me. And you had to be ready for anything.
So did that help you prepare in large part for the voice acting? And were you also doing voice acting some when you were on the show, or did that come later?
Well I’d already been doing voice acting in Boston, on the radio, and then when I went to New York there was just more of an opportunity to open up and to push myself to see what I was capable of. Plus, I had one of the funniest people in the universe lobbing in little lines here and there for me. But people said, “Ah, Jackie wrote everything for you.” Hey, yeah, sure: let me just talk straight, in a character, for seven minutes. A guy can’t write every bit of dialogue that you say for seven minutes. He can put in ideas, and you integrate them into your conversation. I mean, he did it for Howard all the time. But Howard was very generous; I mean, that’s like loaning somebody a nuclear weapon, that he would let Jackie Martling facilitate me.
And now when you were doing all of this, I know you also played guitar and had a band, and you’ve played guitar with Roy Orbison, Brian Wilson…
Oh, I opened up for a lot of famous guys that I knew growing up, like Roy Orbison, Chuck Berry, The Four Seasons, and Jan and Dean… And later on in life I actually got to play with Brian Wilson.
When was that happening, in comparison to the radio and the voice acting?
Radio just started happening as I was phasing out of playing music.
Okay, so that came a little bit before?
Yes, and then after a moratorium, when I did pick up again, in the future, as the years went by, I wound up playing with one of my idols, which was Brian Wilson.
So what was it like playing with Brian Wilson?
It was so strange; because the first time I played with him, we were at a little hall in Santa Monica, by the beach; and it was me and The Cars guitar player – Elliot Easton – and we were playing with Brian, and then a friend of mine was playing bass. We put together a little band; but I mean, I knew every note of the whole catalogue, I knew every harmony, I knew every chord change, because I was so into The Beach Boys. The Beatles and Jeff Beck; the English stuff was good. But The Beach Boys were our band. And it was like a dream, you know, just playing with Brian Wilson.
And then next thing, we’re at Lincoln Center. And then we played David Letterman. And it was crazy, I mean I’m playing these songs with Brian Wilson; and I still can’t get over it. You know, he did all those hot rod songs – girls, and cars, and fun – and we did 409 onstage, and he was singing 409, which is the old hot rod song, and in the chorus, “Nothing can catch her, nothing can touch my 409, 409,” I started going (hot rod revving noises), and he looked over with this happy, astonished smile, like a little child. He’s like: “What’s going on? But I love this, whatever you’re doing over there.”
Oh, that’s fantastic. So now obviously your voice acting is a large part of your career, and Futurama is a huge part of that – and you developed Philip Fry, well Philip J. Fry, if I’m doing the whole name —
— Well that’s because most cartoon characters’ middle initial is J. Rocket J. Squirrel; Homer J. Simpson; Stimpson J. Cat.
Yes. So when you were developing that character; you’ve said that Fry is similar to you at twenty-five; so when they had you in auditioning for Futurama, did they ask you to develop that character; did you come in saying “this is something I have,” or what?
They showed me the pictures when I went in, and there was some dialogue they wanted me to read; and…you know what it’s like – something, you look at it and it just gives you an impression, and depending on your experience, or your talent, or your intuition, you’re hoping that you’ll come up with what they’re looking for. And all of them were pretty much very close to what I gave them. They described Fry, and I said, “You know what? I don’t do this very often, but I’m going to just use my own voice, like when I was twenty-five.” I remember, I was very whinyyy, and complainyyy, and I just know I had a plain vanilla voice. I had no idea I had this wild animal in my throat somewhere; this big clumsy beast that could do anything. You know, I really didn’t know back in those days. Because I was singing and playing. But I would go in and do voices on stage like when we blew up an amp, or a string snapped, or whatever. Out of embarrassment, I would just keep going and entertaining. Might not have been the music or anything, but people loved it. Launching into characters that I would make up, and imitate, or whatever.
Right. And now, on Futurama, you do a lot of the voices. How did that come about?
They would just keep showing me pictures, and I auditioned for everybody, including Bender. I played him as a construction worker, and John DiMaggio came in and mopped the floor with that audition. He played him as kind of a punch-drunk fighter.
Yes, Bender is a great voice.
Oh, it’s beautiful. And it developed into what it is. In the beginning, none of us sounded like who we were. I mean, that’s who we thought we were, at the time, but voices morph. You listen to an episode #10 from The Simpsons, and you listen to the 200th episode, and it’s like, “Huh?” Well, Homer Simpson was like (voice impression), and then later on he developed all of these other facets that make the character so interesting and believable.
Yes. Now in Futurama, or your other roles, what are your favorite characters to play or have played? And what were the most difficult?
I love doing all the characters, and I love them equally; so I can’t pick out a favorite. Because I just try to bring so much imagination to it. I was always trying to do something nobody had done, and that served me well. I didn’t want to mimic people. I could do it – I’ve held up franchises. I did four years of Woody Woodpecker; and Popeye…the works, you know? But you only make your mark for real if you start creating and it catches on. And you have faith that you’re just as good as those impressions that you relied on; that were your little power base.
Right, well because they were starting out once, and they made up those voices, and so why not you? And so what was the most difficult voice to do?
I don’t know; I know that I had become fearless; totally fearless. I’m not afraid of anything, and I’m willing to try anything. I’m willing to fail. I was like that in comedy clubs. Because it didn’t make sense to me – why should I memorize twelve minutes worth of material and then go out and pretend every night that I’d just thought of it? I needed stakes. I needed real things at stake like dying or bombing [on stage]. I really did, and I wasn’t afraid to.
Did you do a lot of stand-up?
Not a lot. A little bit, and then I got into radio, and that was it. Stand-up is very, very hard. There are guys that are just so, so amazing at it and everything. But my forte was not stage performance, doing stand-up. My forte was radio; and that was a bigger playground. You could dodge in and out of characters, and you didn’t even have to have written material; you could ad-lib while you’ve got these crazy voices going back and forth.
In your voice work, how much do they want you to or let you ad-lib?
They want to get what they want to get; ideally, what they had in mind. And then after you do that and they’re happy with it, they ask you if you thought of anything, or you want to add or bring something; and a lot of times I would, and a lot of times it made it in. A lot of it just winds up – they want more rather than less. Because that way they have options; they can play with stuff they didn’t think would work and all of a sudden, oh my God, it works beautifully.
Right. Because sometimes improvisation is the best part of life.
Yeah; but it’s also this constant wonderment of discovery – whether something’s going to work or not. That’s exploration. It’s like, you try to control every aspect of everything as much as you can, but when serendipitous things happen, like, “What was that thing you just did?” “Oh, you mean this?” and they’d say, “Yeah, what if he just goes right into that?”
Like when I did Nixon – I’m old enough to remember when Nixon was running for President, and John F. Kennedy, and they did the debate on TV. And I was astonished at how perfect Kennedy looked – like a game show host, with his perfect teeth, and his buttered-toast hair. He was made for TV. Nixon was made for wanted posters. He looked like a stolen car. And he was (in character) “shifty-eyed, and he was nervous and…ar-rar-rar.” And he was sweating. While the interview was continuing, he was getting worse, and his beard was coming in; you could practically see the bottom half of his face get darker and darker. And I said to my mom, “Mom, he’s going to turn into a werewolf!” Because I loved horror movies, like with Lon Chaneyslowly turning into the werewolf. Nixon was kind of almost there – lycanthropic. So he was just doing his thing, and I said, “That’s awful; he’s almost unwatchable.”
And then years later, I get the chance to do Nixon, as a head in a jar, and I would say something like, (in character) “You filthy hippies, get off the grass outside this White House,” and then all of a sudden I would go: (werewolf noises). Like I was changing. You know, just replacing words with noises and stuff.
Hah, wow. I know it’s hard work, but it just sounds like so much fun.
Well, you gotta keep coming up with new bags of tricks, and keep expanding them and everything. That’s how you keep working.
Now you were saying earlier that you have essentially had conversations with yourself. Some examples of that are Farnsworth introducing Fry to Zoidberg [in Futurama], and then Doug and his arch-nemesis. How do you deal with that; how does that work in your head? Because that seems to be even a double challenge over consistently trying to sound a certain way.
It’s like I had my boot camp training in Boston doing consecutive voices. Because I got a job as a producer; and there’s no producer school you can go to. I had to learn how to splice tape, and I had to learn how to write and create my own characters and bits; and then put it together so it could be air-able; with sound effects, and music, and everything. I didn’t quite know what I was doing, but I just did it.
And it works for you!
Yeah, I mean, I’m very strange in that way; like I still, to this day, can’t tie my shoes properly, I just can’t. And a necktie, I have problems with. I can’t do anything practical; but if you ask me to do something only like, four or five other people in the world can do, I have no problem.
So now as a voice actor, what’s the experience of celebrity? How do you experience that as someone who’s mostly known by different voices, so someone might not actually know, talking to you, that yours was the voice they’ve heard on shows?
Well, celebrities were never my heroes. Never. To this day, I don’t give a dismal damn, really, whether Kim’s having problems with her pregnancy, or whatever. It’s like, “Fuck you.” You know what? Anybody who can fart the national anthem can become a celebrity. Any stupid-looking bald guy can throw on an earring and a goatee and a leather jacket, and now he’s Pawn Stars. And they pose these guys like rappers, like album covers; they’re all big, bad, and bald – and they’re basically lucky imbeciles, because show business ain’t what it was anymore, now it’s supposed to be “reality.” These guys just have to be who and what they are. And then they learn how to act; because they go, “I like this ride very much;” and they know it’s going to be over, and they want to stay in that business. They don’t want to go back to oblivion.
Yes. So how do you interact with fans? And do some people just know your whole oeuvre? What is that experience like?
There’s people that know more about me than I do. Because I can’t remember every little fiddle-faddle, you know? But I’m just grateful; I’m so grateful – I mean, what are the odds that there would be people in this world that would put aside time in their life to know what you do, and to follow it? It’s mind-blowing to me; it’s surreal – and it still is, to this day.
Well that’s a great and very humble attitude.
Well, I mean, I know. I know the drill, I know the deal. You have to somehow connect in one way or another with people who admire you; and hopefully you’ll keep up the same standard of work that turned them on in the first place. So I always try to – whatever new thing comes along, I just try to come in like gangbusters; you know, get some attention. Like, I like to turn tables over, bash chairs. You know, when I first went to New York I was like a Terminator. I got all skinny because I knew I was going to be walking everywhere, and auditioning; and I used to listen to bagpipe music.
Bagpipe music?
Yeah, because I’m half Irish; and when I hear bagpipe music, it makes this Celtic side of me boil, and prepares you to go into battle. I’d be galvanized, like I was marching into a glen with my compatriots, and we’re all going to get stabbed and shot; but it’s okay, because we’re doing it for the right reason. And I used to listen to all these bagpipes, going up 2nd Avenue, 3rd Avenue, to work, and I would get to the audition, and I’d feel like a Terminator.
Like you were ready. That’s fantastic. Speaking of getting ready for new things; what are you working on currently that we should be looking forward to?
I’m doing some kids’ stuff. I never used to get hired by Disney; because I wasn’t their kind of guy, you know what I mean? The stuff I did was very Gothic and dark-ish, like screaming and yelling and very dramatic. But I got this show called The 7D; and I’m playing Bashful, because the 7D are the seven dwarves. (Singing) “We’re The Seven D,” and they get a beautiful, cute song and everything. And I love it; I love it to pieces.
And is that out now, or coming out?
It’s coming out. And I was doing some voice work for Avengers Assemble. There’s a character called Rocket Raccoon. So I’m doing him. (In character) “Yeah, he’s got kind of like a Joe Pesci. And like, Steve Buscemi.” “Blood has been spilled, Jerry. I’m through fuckin’ around wit’ you, Jerry.” But somehow he has that voice. I thought it would be perfect to just tweak it; and it’s not a dead-on impression – I could care less about that. What it is, is: “Is it funny? Is it interesting? Does it fit?” I did a bunch of hours of recording the other day. And then I have my projects going. That keeps me busy because I’m always writing. I stay up all hours and stuff, but it’s a labor of love, so you feel energized somehow.
Yeah! Well I hope that we see some of that from you soon.
I hope you do, too.
And thank you so much for this interview.
My pleasure.
• • • • •
Nope, it was totally my pleasure, Billy. You’re delightful.
Big thanks to Billy West for the interview, and big thanks to the ever-helpful Kevin O’Shea, producer for Made of Fail Productions, for cleaning up the audio file for me. (And as ever, check out the Made of Fail podcasts for fun geek-tastic discussions, in which I have actually appeared a couple of times.)
That’s all for now, and until next week, when I’ll be sharing my interview with the talented cartoonist Nick Galifianakis, Servo Lectio!
(Michael ran this piece on MichaelDavisWorld.com and asked that we run it here at ComicMix in place of his regular column. After reading it, you’ll know why!)
When is making a short zombie film an act of protest?
When the heroes and heroines are black. When there is no Sacrificial Negro to fulfill the fantasy that our lives matter less than white lives. When there is no cooning, shucking or jiving. When no black “Spiritual Guide” exists only to ennoble and enlighten white characters. When artists and backers unite to circumvent cultural barriers to tell our own stories.
As authors and screenwriters, we never set out to become filmmakers. But after years of options, pitches and meetings, we realized Hollywood is just a money machine following the ticket-buying habits of America as a whole. It will never lead. It was time to stop waiting for Hollywood to translate our stories to screen.
So the idea for our short film Danger Word was born.
Danger Word, adapted from our YA novel Devil’s Wake, is a coming-of-age short film about a 13-year-old girl surviving in the woods with her grandfather after the zombie apocalypse, and how her birthday celebration goes badly awry. (We have signed film and television veteran Frankie Faison, pictured above, to play Grandpa Joe.)
But that’s just the logline. It’s really about creating imagery of our families caring for each other, and the bitter lessons all children face on the path to adulthood. In the tradition of Night of the Living Dead, it’s a horrific social prism reflecting our real world’s trials.
The history of blacks in horror, fantasy and science fiction films has not been pretty. The casting of Duane Jones as the lead of “Night of the Living Dead” transformed fears of black power into a fable of disintegrating society—and never forget that the lead character’s advice got everyone killed. Supernatural films from The Shining to The Green Mile specialize in black characters with amazing powers who die so that white people can live and grow. Minus the amazing powers, we recently saw this example replayed in television’s “The Walking Dead” and the death of T-Dog. Morgan Freeman has played God more often than he’s been passionately kissed onscreen. In the cinema, Will Smith has saved the world more often than he’s made love. And let’s not count the number of films in which the ONLY black character dies while white characters survive and get the girl.
When’s the last time you saw an American film where the only white character died while the black characters survived? It’s pretty obvious that this is working out some deep unconscious fears and preferences on the part of artists and audiences.
It’s absurd. And totally understandable. The mythology of every group of human beings is built around one idea: “God made us first, and loves us best.” Every group…except black Americans.
Fairy tales in all cultures exist to preserve the central values and beliefs of the societies that create them. And just as black people tend to pay special attention to films with black stars, white audience (not absolutely, but statistically) prefer films with people who look like them as the leads. And when non-white characters are leads, they like them to be singular, not sexual competition, and preserve social values they personally hold dear. Note the anger toward Will Smith’s son Jaden in internet chatter over the upcoming science fiction film After Earth. Smith is passing along his accumulated cultural capital, and that threatens the status quo in a way that Smith as an individual does not. (The real “gap” is not between black and white income…but between black and white inherited wealth. The amount of capital, financial or cultural, passed from generation to generation.) Films are also a part of our children’s inheritance.
Tananarive’s supernatural love story My Soul to Keep sat at a studio for seven years without getting made. (We optioned it to the studio before our son was born, and he was in second grade before we got the rights back.) When Steve’s dystopian martial-arts fable Streetlethal was in development, the first question he was asked was: “Can we make the lead white?”
Many of you have similar stories. Enough is enough.
But we have to proceed carefully. And one reality is that there is no faster way to go broke than to personally finance a cinematic passion project. Like our director and co-producer Luchina Fisher (Death in the Family), we don’t have a hedge fund and giant investors. We have to raise the budget through crowd funding—or community funding, as we call it.
If the audience is there, if people like you believe that our children deserve stories of heroism and ingenuity, that OUR children need to see themselves as central to creation…that we have as much right as anyone else to cheer for people who look as if they could live in our mirrors…movies like Danger Word can exist, and feed something deep within us. There is no hour of the day or night when white audiences cannot turn on their televisions and see images of power and sexuality and courage. No day of the week they cannot go to the movies and not see these images fifty-feet high on the silver screen. No hour they cannot pick up books or comic books and have their fantasies reinforced: We are the kings and queens. We are the best. We are the most powerful, sexiest, smartest, most courageous and beautiful creatures in the world.
Joseph Campbell’s archetype of “The Hero’s Journey” says that our myths and stories are the village elders telling us “this is what life will be.” And that understanding leads us to the understanding of our Selves. And that without that understanding, we are vulnerable to any external programming. Say, for instance, programming that says we are less than, or should only live in support of. That we are not as central to creation as anyone else. And that is not a legacy we will pass to our children. Or yours.
With the example of artists like Ava DuVernay and her AFFRM distribution model, a new day is dawning in black independent film. Black-themed horror could be “The Next Big Thing” in the footsteps of Asian horror, with fresh image systems and cultural references.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step, and Danger Word is ours.
Please help us by spreading the word and donating what you can.
Steven Barneshas published 28 novels of science fiction and fantasy. He has been nominated for Hugo, Nebula, and Cable Ace awards. His television work includes The Twilight Zone, Stargate and Andromeda, and his “A Stitch in Time” episode of The Outer Limits won an Emmy Award for actress Amanda Plummer. His alternate history novel Lion’s Blood won the 2003 Endeavor Award. He won an NAACP Image Award for In the Night of the Heat, a mystery novel co-authored with his wife, Tananarive Due, in collaboration with actor Blair Underwood. Visit his website atwww.diamondhour.com.
Tananarive Dueis the author of a dozen novels, including the supernatural suspense novels My Soul to Keep and The Good House (both formerly in development at Fox Searchlight). She is the recipient of an American Book Award. In 2009, she received an NAACP Image Award with Steven Barnes and actor Blair Underwood for their Tennyson Hardwick mystery novel In the Night of the Heat. Her website is atwww.tananarivedue.com.
So, ComicMix readers, as per my previous column, Awesome Con DC happened April 20 and 21…and, I say this unironically, it was awesome. I had a blast. I spent time with good friends; I met new friends; I walked the con floor and met comics legends (great chat, Larry Hama!) and witty and charming award-winning artists (hello, Ben Templesmith!); and was delighted with the strong turnout of talented local comics folks. I went to a couple of panels (amazing, for me, since I usually plan to go to tons and then don’t go to…any); and wore my Girl Jayne Firefly costume. And yes, naturally, I boughtsomestuff (surprise!). I also pretended to be Nick Galifianakis for awhile (don’t tell!) and did three fantaaaastic interviews: with Nick, and with the amazingly talented Phil LaMarr and Billy West. (More convention pictures here, and oh by the way, next year’s Awesome Con dates are already set! April 19-20, 2014! Woo!) So much fun!
This week, I get to share with you my Awesome Con interview with Phil LaMarr, who is so fantastic. Seriously, y’all. So fantastic. And multi-talented. If you don’t remember him from his many roles during his five year stint on the sketch comedy show MADtv, then you might remember him as Marvin (poor Marvin! So young, so shot-in-the-face!) from Pulp Fiction. Or you might have seen him on one of the many other shows in which he made guest appearances. Or you might know him from his voice acting, in such roles as Hermes Conrad (and Reverend Preacherbot) on Futurama; or as John Stewart, Green Lantern, on Justice League; or as J.A.R.V.I.S. and Wonder Man on The Avengers TV series; or as Samurai Jack on Samurai Jack; or from Family Guy, or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, or Avatar: The Last Airbender, or Star Wars: The Clone Wars, or King of the Hill, or Foster’s Home for Imaginary Friends, or Marvel: Ultimate Alliance, or, or, or…really I could go on forever. But instead, why don’t we go to the interview?
If you want to listen to the interview (listen to it! He does voices! We geek out about comics!) you can do so here. Or, you can read the (slightly edited) transcript below!
Hello, this is Emily Whitten, and I am here with Phil LaMarr at Awesome Con, the first comic con in the DC area in something like eight years. Phil, thank you for joining me.
Of course.
And I’m a big fan of your work; who isn’t?
Awww.
And…there’s so much of it, I almost didn’t know where to start; so I’m going to ask you, what was the first time that you were on stage, or acted?
Ooh, wow; first time ever was eighth grade, in a school play; a production of The Phantom Tollbooth. I played Tock the Watchdog.
You played Tock!
I did.
That’s fantastic. So how did you like it; what was your experience there?
Oh, it was amazing. The play opens with the real-world version of Tock, who is the clock in Milo’s room, doing a monologue to the audience. So my first time on stage in front of an audience was alone, on stage, under a spotlight, talking to the full auditorium; and it was a transformative experience. It triggered something in me that has never been the same since. I mean, that’s basically the dragon I’ve been chasing – since eighth grade.
So then were you in all the other school plays after that, or did you feel your way out; how did that work?
Not all of them; I did tech crew, and stuff; you know – because I was in eighth grade. And then in tenth grade, I got the part of Bogart in Play It Again, Sam. Which was arguably the start of my voice work and impressions…I mean, because (as Bogart) “‘Cause honestly, I was doing a Bogart impression and I was fifteen.” When most kids my age didn’t know who Bogart was. I beat everybody out by doing it.
Well that’s amazing! Now since then, obviously you’ve done a lot of work.
I’ve never done Bogart again.
You haven’t? No! But you did do a lot of work for MADtv. Now, tell me how that came to be?
Well, I’d gone through The Groundlings program, so I’d done sketch comedy and improv and over the course of that, created a few characters. I didn’t get MADtv through The Groundlings – I wasn’t there when the casting people came – but I was prepared for it, from creating characters and writing sketches. I’d been at that point, doing it for…that was ‘95, and I’d been in The Groundlings program since ‘89. So I had a lot of experience under my belt doing it. And it translated nicely.
So when you went to MADtv, and you had the characters, like Slick Rick, and you had the UPS—I mean UBS guy…
Right…yeah, that always annoyed me; it’s like, “Really? We can’t say ‘UPS’? We can say UPS.”
It’s unfortunate! So were those characters that you had created and brought over?
The UPS guy I had done at The Groundlings on stage; and in fact the first UPS guy sketch that I did with Mary Scheer on MADtv; I had also done with Mary Scheer on stage.
Oh, okay – because she was in the program as well?
Yeah, she was in The Groundlings with me, and we both got the show at the same time. Of course, for some reason the producers made me change the ending; because, in my version, he got the girl.
Awww. As it should be, you know?
Of course!
I love Jaq.
Everyone does!
He’s great, you know?
Eventually they saw the error of their ways, and then they began to write sketches where he, like, really got the girl. It became increasingly sexual; it’s like, guys, guys: (as Jaq) ‘Well no ’cause he’s just all moving around-‘ it’s like: (exasperated sigh).
The video store one is probably one of my favorites, because you do the embarrassed not-quite-sure-what-to-do very well.
Thank you.
And the fact that he was kind of popping up all over the store, that was fantastic.
Right. Pretending to rent everything except the one he wanted. Yeah, I don’t know where that came from. Out of whole cloth, completely imaginary.
Right; you heard a story once, or somebody had an experience.
Although it’s funny that you mention that one, because that was the one sketch that I got writing credit for.
Really?
Yeah.
Well good job, well done you!
Thank you.
Now when was Pulp Fiction, was that before MADtv?
That was before MADtv. We shot that in ’93, and it came out in ’94; so yeah, next year it will be twenty years, actually.
Wow – and of course it is a classic already, even though it will officially be a classic, you know, when it’s twenty. …I guess, if that’s how you calculate.
It will be an ‘antique.’
Yes; well I hear cars are classics after twenty or something like that…
Oh, okay; and movies…are classic once they reboot them.
Yes, exactly; Spider-Man’s like twelve classics now.
Exactly.
So when you were working on Pulp Fiction, obviously you have a great but not huge part, but what was that like, and what was your favorite part, or did you learn something new from it that you found very valuable in the future?
It was interesting because – you know, I loved Reservoir Dogs, so I was chomping at the bit to audition, and I got the chance. And it was so much fun; because Quentin was just so generous. You know, in the audition process, and later on, you know, in the shooting process as well; and I got to audition with the Jules and Brett scene – Sam Jackson, you know, has the gun on Frank Whaley, and it’s just – it’s like reading fresh Shakespeare. It’s like: “So Romeo and Juliet; but they can’t get togeth-my God, this is amazing!” You know? It’s like, “Where do you come up with these ideas, Will??”
Yeah, it was amazing. It’s the sort of thing where when you’re preparing for the audition, by the second or third time you’ve read it through you realize, “Oh, I’ve got this memorized;” because the words just flow, one into the other; it just makes sense.
That’s really great.
Yes; it was the best set that I’ve been on; still, to date.
In terms of the people you were working with, or the atmosphere, or the direction, or everything?
The vibe and the atmosphere; which, oddly enough, I think came from the script. Everyone who read that script loved it, you know, and wanted to be a part of it. Bruce Willis took a – I mean, I don’t know how big a pay cut he took, but the budget for the movie was eight million dollars; so he took a hell of a pay cut. And again; I mean, I knew going into it that it was a very, very small part – it’s like, five lines; but I also knew, “Well, as small as it is, they can’t cut me out – or they lose forty-five minutes of the movie.” Where did all the blood come from??
Yeah, they call up their friend, and they’re like, “What do we do now?” And what would they do if there was no you? The [plot would] be in trouble.
Exactly.
So, okay, you had done some improv, and you had done the movie, and you’ve done voice work – between the three – or however many different kinds of roles you’ve had – what’s your favorite and/or what do you find the most challenging to prepare for?
Well it’s funny, because the most challenging to prepare for is my least favorite. And that’s things that are badly written.
That’s fair!
Because honestly, that’s the most challenging to prepare for. It’s like, “Oh dear God. How can I make this work?” When something is great? When something is just a fantastic piece? It’s not work. It’s like, “Oh! Oh I could do this!” You’re inspired by what you’re given. So that’s not work at all. And it’s funny, because people always ask, “Do you like live action, or animation, or stage?” And I’m like, “I like things that are good.”
And the truth is, things that are good have more in common than just being something in the same medium. Like Pulp Fiction has more in common with Samurai Jack than Samurai Jack has with Pound Puppies.
But, now; being someone who’s known for improv and sketch comedy as one of your things, do people give you more leeway in roles that wouldn’t usually call for that, necessarily? Like do you ever go in and say, “Oh, but I could do it this way!” – because I know that can happen with any actor, sometimes, that they can go in and improv something; but do you find that people expect that of you, or like that from you?
At times. It depends on the project. Although, the weird thing is, even though I’m an improviser, as an actor I’m really, really text-driven. So my first impulse is not to go off script; my first impulse is to go into the script and figure out: “Okay, how best can I serve the writer’s intent?” But yeah, I mean obviously there are a lot of comedy things, roles in shows that you get on, where they’re looking for you to, like, “Make it better!” Which is a great challenge, and a great opportunity.
That’s really interesting. Now, speaking of the different kinds of roles, could you pick your top roles that were either the most fun or most challenging, or both? And I know we’ve talked about the connection between fun and challenging. But roles where you could look back and say, oh, my life was more complete because I did these things, or my career was more complete, my experience.
Hm, I don’t know, Justice League [for which Phil does John Stewart, Green Lantern] was definitely a lot of fun, just because it was a wonderful nexus; because I’m a comic book person, and to be able to play in that world was really, really fun and rewarding. It was also made by spectacularly talented people, you know: Bruce Timm, and Dwayne McDuffie, and Sam Berkowitz, and Len Uhley, and Andrea Romano; like basically everybody involved with it was at the top of their game.
Yeah, they’re basically legends in their field. And now you said, as I was aware already, that you’re a comic book fan. Tell me, when you were little, how did you get into it, or what’s your favorite character or storyline?
Well I think I was pretty much a casual comic book reader, until maybe ten or eleven? Then our neighbors had a son who came back from college, and basically bequeathed unto me his entire comic book collection.
WOW.
So he was like in his early twenties-
-You can tell I’m excited about this.
Yeah, he just like, handed me this longbox.
The actual longbox, like what is it, like 300 comics at least in a longbox?
Right! And there were some amazing – I mean, I had some Mad Magazines, some of which I still have, that are older than I am. And I had great old Carmine Infantino Batmans; [and there were] twenty cent comics, and this was at a time when comics weren’t twenty cents anymore. And just a wide range. Stuff that I probably wouldn’t have picked up myself, but I got to read them. And it’s funny, because I’ve never been a “collector;” I’ve always been a reader; and the one time I tried to be a collector in the mid-eighties, I’m like, “Oh, there’s these new issues of this comic book coming out; I’m going to make sure I get number one!” and most of the number ones I have are, like, crap. I have Rom #1; Rom: SpaceKnight.
I don’t even know if I know that one.
No, you don’t. No you don’t.
I should, right?
No, you shouldn’t. It was really, really awful. The main character was a space robot.
Hmm, because “Space Knight” actually sounds kind of cool; but a space robot…?
But there was no there. There was no character, it was like, “No! He’s just a robot. From space. Doesn’t talk!” But I mean, I do also have New Teen Titans #1. So that was one I jumped on. And actually, I have Moon Knight #1, which wasn’t that great at the time…
Yeah, but he’s gotten a lot bigger, in the last, I don’t know, I would say five years? I feel like it’s been more recently that he’s gotten more attention and more development.
Well it’s a tough character, just because that initial thing is like: “Okay, so, he’s a rich guy. And a mercenary! …And also a cab driver!” It’s like: “Whaaat??”
Yeah, he’s a little schizophrenic in the character development.
And eventually they wrote that into the character. “No no no, he’s actually just crazy.”
I was thinking, “Are they going to retcon that ever, or is it just going to be part of him now?”
Yes, somebody’s going to erase that. “Oh, the moon came over and it erased that…mental disease that this hero has.”
Yeah…but still, having the #1 of that is pretty good!
Well, especially because it’s early Bill Sienkiewicz. It’s Bill when he was still, like, “Is that Neal Adams? But just with really…with more sketch lines?”
That’s fantastic!
Yeah, I love that.
So yeah, that’s a good one, absolutely.
I’ve got to get him to sign that.
Yes, you should. He goes to cons, right? I haven’t actually run into him at one, but I’m sure…
He was at New York Comic Con last year.
Oh, then I’ve been at one with him and not – just kind of like how I saw you maybe from a distance at NYCC, I don’t know.
Yes, he’s very elusive.
Well I’m sure he’ll be at another one, and we’ll be at another one. So speaking of comics, I am embarrassed to say, that while I was –
That you’ve never read a comic book?
Hah, no! You know that’s not true!
“I’m, I’m just really pretty, aaaand…”
“I’m a fake geek girl, you know, ohmigoood…”
You are the fake unicorn. You are a horse with a horn glued on.
Hah, I am, I exist, the fake geek girl! No; I’ve read – my collection is quite impressive. I actually do have the entire-
You sound like such a dude when you say that.
I know, right?
You have a Ferrari – it’s a little red Ferrari: “My collection is massive. It’s really pretty impressive.”
“It’s amazing, dude. Bro!”
“You should see it. But don’t touch it! Or I’ll…”
“Dude, it’s all in the little bags and boards, and if you get your fingerprints on it, I’m gonna be like, ‘Phil LaMarr’s fingerprint versus a mint condition, I don’t knoooow…'”
…But I have the entire Deadpool run.
Oh wow.
From the first appearance in New Mutants all the way through the current…
Really.
Yeah, I’m missing, like, a Black Panther that I cannot find. Black Panther #23.
So you’re kind of a completist?
Oh, I am. When it comes to Deadpool. And then when it comes to current runs that I’m reading if I miss one I go back and I get it.
Oh, well that just makes sense.
But yeah, I’m a definite completist when it comes to Deadpool; my collection is ridiculous.
How are you liking the Posehn/Duggan stuff?
I have to admit, I’m a little behind. Don’t tell! So far I’m liking it…
That’s the problem with being a completist.
I know! And I’ve also done some review copies lately so the stack [of stuff waiting to be read] is always changing. I have a stack right now that still includes Peter David’s X-Men: Gifted prose novel in the plastic and I got it for Christmas! But I read a little bit [of the Posehn/Duggan Deadpool]; I like it so far. But here’s what I’m embarrassed to admit: I was looking at your Wikipedia to prepare for this interview, even though I know some of your work, obviously, and I was like –
“He’s black! What the hell? No one ever told me!”
Right? “I didn’t know!”
No, but I was like, “He was in Spider-Man 2??” Which, I love that movie! And I love the scene that you’re in. And I was always so focused on Spider-Man; I went back and I was like, “Where is he, where is he, I have to find him!” This was last night; I have the movie, but I got on YouTube, because I knew it would be on there, because it’s the train scene – it’s the big scene. So I watched, and I was like, “And he catches Spider-ma – look at that!” How did you make that happen? No, I mean, they probably came to you and were like, “Phil. Come be in our movie.”
No! I auditioned for the Hal Sparks part; the guy in the elevator, when Spider-Man’s powers stop working.
Which is a great scene, where he’s like, “Cool Spidey suit, dude.”
Right.
So you auditioned for that…
And didn’t get it. And then they called, randomly, in August, and said:
“Hey, is Phil available to work from Wednesday to Friday?”
“For what?”
“Oh, Spider-Man 2.”
“Well, what part? Is it the part that he auditioned for?”
“No.”
“Well what part?”
“We can’t say.”
“Well can you send over a script?”
“No.”
And they refused to say anything! Like, “Well, what are we doing?” “They won’t tell me.” “Uhhhh…o-kaaay.” And I’m just racking my brains, like, “Well, this is Spider-Man, but…what am I doing?” And I told my agent, “All right: ask them, will I be working directly with Sam Raimi?” Because I knew, it’s a big, big movie; and I’m not going in there to be some sort of second unit, running from falling building blocks. And they said, “Yes, you will.” “All right, I’m in.” But I had no idea what I was doing. I showed up, and I’m like, “Whaaaaat are we doing?” And it turned out, [Sam] saw that scene, that fight between Doc Ock and Spidey, especially with Spider-Man losing his mask and keeping going, as the action heart of the movie.
And I totally agree!
It is.
That’s actually the reason I never noticed that it was you, because I’m so focused on the whole of the scene!
And it’s a fantastic scene!
Do you know, whenever I watch that movie, I actually watch that scene at least two or three times? Like, whenever I watch it. I cannot stop myself.
Because when else have you ever seen a fight scene at 100 miles an hour? In and out.
I know, with the windows, and the arms, and everything, and he goes in and out of the cars, and then at the end, when he’s stopping it with all the webs; it’s great! It’s fantastic.
Yeah, and the fact that it’s like: Is he going to stop it? No! He fails! No, he’s going to try again! And it’s just really – it’s just about willpower. But Sam knew that he needed emotion in this scene, and he said, “Okay, I’ve got, like, sixty extras,” and he sat us around and he said, “Okay, I’ve hired you eight actors so I can sprinkle you throughout this scene, so that I always have someone amongst the extras that I can cut to, to give me what I need at that moment, in the scene.” And I’m like, “I’ve never heard of that; that’s absolutely brilliant!” Like, if you have a crowd scene; yes, you don’t want to have to cut to extras to deliver the heart or the fear or whatever. And so he said, “I don’t know what the lines will be; we may be playing around with stuff; there’s nothing really scripted; but we may put some things in. You may not have lines, you might have lines, we don’t know .”
And you didn’t actually have a line, did you?
No; I had a line at one point that got cut out in the final cut.
Okay; but in that scene, I vividly remember people catching Spider-Man, and the emotion of it; I just didn’t realize it was you!
And you’re not supposed to! That would have been really distracting.
Well, and actually, the last time I had watched you on TV was more like Pulp Fiction and MADtv and stuff, and then I knew your voice acting; and so I don’t think I had connected the two of them as much. But that’s so great.
Yeah, it was fun. Well it was hilarious, because that two days turned into two and a half weeks.
Because that’s a huge scene! So how was it, working with Sam Raimi and everything?
It was great. I mean, a lot of sitting-around time, because on a movie with that kind of budget, they don’t really care if you sit around for twelve hours and don’t work. They’re like, “Your pay isn’t even going to show up on our budget,” you know what I’m saying? So it’s like, “Yeah, two weeks. Eh.” Actually, they didn’t even tell us that it was going to be extended. Just at one point, it’s like Friday, and it’s like, “Okay, so I guess it’s our last day,” and they’re like, “Oh, by the way, you’re on a weekly contract.” And I’m like, “Whuuu…?”
“See ya tomorrow!”
Right! “Oh, okay, I guess we…” But it was fun. It’s funny, because I wound up meeting Chloe Dykstra, who is a cosplay model and host, and she was fifteen, sixteen? And her dad was doing the special effects – John Dykstra – although it’s funny, because at one point – the subway train was pretty analog, like when the train rocked, there were a bunch of grips pushing a big wooden pole to rock it back and forth; and it looked very practical. They had practical Doc Ock arms, puppet arms that came in; and I passed John Dykstra one day on set, and I was like, “Well, this looks like a pretty easy scene for you, not a lot of special effects.” And he’s like, “…Not really.” And I was like, “Well what do you have to do?” “I have to create all of New York.” And he pointed up, and I realized that the entire three-story sound-stage we were in was a green screen.
Wow, and so he had to do everything rushing by, and when the webs go?
Everything you’re seeing – because actually, even some of the webs were practical; like when he’s holding them? Those were actual, practical webs.
I would think they would have to be, at least in his hands, so that they would look real.
But everything you’re seeing as it goes by, like all of the lighting, and all of the texture and everything – he created.
I find that stuff so fascinating, and I only know a little about it; and so I’m thinking, like, “How do they make his costume rip in just the right places, at just the right times,” you know?
The continuity was insane. And that was the other thing that was really impressive. Because Tobey Maguire was there on set, and at one point, we’re all carrying him. You know, it was that shot from above. And we were actually carrying him. And he was so nice, and I’m thinking, “If you’ve got me glued into a suit, where I can’t pee but once every eight hours? And then you’re going to throw me, with a recent back injury?”
Oh, he had a back injury?
Around Secretariat.
Oh yes, I remember that. [Emily note: We were both thinking of Seabiscuit. Because, you know, movies with horses and jockeys, yo.]
There was this whole talk about, they weren’t sure if he was going to be able to do it. And it’s like, “And you’re going to have me carried by a bunch of extras?” I’m sure if I was him, I would have done it; but I would have been in a bad mood. But he was so amazingly cool.
Did you get to sit down and chat with him at some point?
A little bit.
Because I’m sure everything was rushing around.
Yeah. And you also don’t want to bother him.
No, because he’s concentrating, he’s the main guy, in the main scene…
Yeah; and you know that guy has to – you don’t know what that person’s process is to maintain their energy. Because there’s a lot of sitting around, but when it’s time to go, you have to be ready to go. And it’s all on him.
Well, and everyone has a different method, and some people want the silence and everything.
Right.
That’s so cool though. I’m so glad that you’re in that; now every time I watch it I’m going to be like, “Look, it’s Phil!”
I’m so glad I’m in it every time I get a residual check.
Hah, that’s fair to say! Well I supported you, then, because I have the movie, and I went to see it.
Thank you.
So just a couple of other questions. Obviously, in your voice work, we mentioned the John Stewart role; also Futurama, which is huge and amazing and fun, and you play Hermes Conrad…
(As Hermes) A thirty-sixth grade level certified bureaucrat!
Which is fantastic! And at some point he gets bumped down and then gets back up there. He’s a great character, and you did other voices too…
Yeah; I mean, it’s been ten, fifteen years…I don’t know how long we’ve been doing it; but over the years we’ve all wound up doing additional characters, secondary characters; because there’s always somebody else to do.
Right. And now with that voice work, I have seen where sometimes with voice actors, you go in and you’re by yourself, and you’re doing your part, and then sometimes there are other people. Did you each record your own parts for Futurama, or were you in the room with everybody?
For Futurama we do group records. In shows that are writer-driven and comedy-driven, where the writers care about the comedy? You do group records.
Because the chemistry just works so much better when everybody’s together.
And you can’t really tell if a joke works if you can’t hear the lines before it.
That’s a really good point, obviously.
But people do it all the time!
Yeah, I’ve seen where people are just by themselves, and I’m like, “Wow, that has to be even harder than doing it with the group.”
As an actor it’s really difficult, because you can no longer trust yourself. You can’t take in the line that you’re getting and then respond naturally. You have to basically guess. It’s like, “Well, I don’t know what my response would be,” so you just have to trust the director.
Have you done that too? Jobs where you had to go in by yourself?
Yes.
So you have both experiences. I would much prefer the group to going in by myself.
Of course. It’s the difference between, like if you’re writing, having an editor you know and an editor you don’t know. It’s like, “Okay, well, I don’t know what this person likes, I don’t know what they hate, but I’ll just deliver whatever I’m going to.” You can do it, you still do the same job, but it’s less comfortable. And a lot of the big companies – Disney and DreamWorks – tend to do more individual records than group reads. Occasionally there will be a creator or producer who can insist on, “I really need a group read,” but generally, more and more of the companies lately are doing individual records.
Right; and I have seen some of that, because I follow the Deadpool fandom, and Nolan North does Deadpool for things like Hulk vs., so I saw some clips of that process. Now you actually worked on a project with him fairly recently; the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.
Yes.
And there are a lot of really great names in there, like Sean Astin, and Rob Paulsen –
– and Kevin Michael Richardson, and Jason Biggs, and Greg Cipes.
Yes! Lots of great names on there. So do you actually interact together, or is that one where you’re recording your separate parts?
Andrea Romano directs that, and Andrea’s very good and pretty old-school. So she does a read-through before, which almost nobody ever does, unless it’s a prime time show. But she does a table read the day of, just like she did in Justice League; like we would start the session by reading through the entire script.
Oh, right, so she directed both of those.
Yeah. She’s amazing. She did Animaniacs, Tiny Toons, Pinky and the Brain, Justice League…
Yes! Which – Rob worked on a lot of those, I know. Did you ever work on Animaniacs and all of those?
No, those were before I got into VO. But fantastic shows. So she tends to do group records. And the funny thing is, there are directors who have four hours, or however many hours, or an hour for an individual thing and can barely get it done. She has an entire group of actors for just four hours, does a read-through first, and will still get you out early.
Wow. So who have you recorded with for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles?
I’ve recorded with the gang.
So how did you like that? And is that coming back?
I believe so.
Okay, well, you should know.
I don’t know! No, the actors are the last to know. Seriously? If you’re putting something together, the last people you call are the actors.
I see. Well I haven’t actually gotten to watch [TNMT] yet, so I wasn’t sure exactly where it is right now.
I think they’re still recording episodes; but maybe they’re in second season; I’m not exactly sure.
Well hopefully there will be more of that. Because I’ve loved Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles from, you know, yea big, so I will want to check that out at some point.
You should, because the people behind it – Peter Hastings, and Ciro Nieli are just really, really talented.
Awesome. I will definitely do that. So tell me, is there any other current work you would like to talk about?
Hm, what’s going on right now…? I’m doing some on-camera stuff; I did a comedy series called Inside the Legend, that’s just been picked up by My Damn Channel. It’s a comedy interview show with characters from history, mythology, fiction, and legend; but they’re all a little tweaked. Like we did one where the female host is interviewing Albert Einstein. And then she introduces him, and he starts talking with a Southern accent. And she’s like, “Oh my God, I’m so sorry! Ladies and gentlemen, Mark Twain!” And they just keep switching back and forth, and she’s never sure which one she’s talking to.
Okay, I must see that! Where and when is that coming on?
Okay, well that’s fantastic; I will definitely put that link in, because that sounds just right up my alley.
Oh, and you’d also love – I’m also working on Chatroom of Solitude; Jeff Lewis from The Guild has written this. It’s for Stan Lee’s World of Heroes, and it’s really hilarious. It’s basically superheroes and supervillains on Google Chat.
I’m in love already. And that is also online?
Yeah. They’re both out now.
Well I’ll definitely check those out, because that’s fantastic. Yay! Thank you so much for this interview; and I’m going to do the thing that everybody [I assume] asks you to do…will you do the Green Lantern oath for me? Will you do it, Phil? I know you did it once today already, but…
Okay… Well, they’ll pick this clip, or the clip from YouTube, whichever:
“In brightest day, in blackest night,
no evil shall escape my sight.
Let those who worship evil’s might
beware my power: Green Lantern’s light!”
Thank you so much, Phil, this has been great.
You’re so silly.
Well, he’s right; I am. Big thanks to Phil LaMarr for the interview, and big thanks to the ever-helpful Kevin O’Shea, producer for Made of Fail Productions, for cleaning up the audio file for me. (And as ever, check out the Made of Fail podcasts for fun geek-tastic discussions, in which I have actually appeared a couple of times.
That’s all for now, and until next week, when I’ll be sharing my interview with the excellent Billy West, Servo Lectio!
The High School Of Art & Design (A&D) was where I studied illustration and where countless great comic book, animation and illustration artists learned their craft, including Carmine Infantino, John Romita Sr., Dick Giordano, Ralph Bakshi, Neal Adams, Larry Hama, Denys Cowan, Mark Texeira, Malcolm Jones III, Frank Brunner, Jimmy Palmiotti, Joe Jusko, Mike Carlin and Ralph Reese.
That list goes on but A&D also produced many others of note in various areas such as fashion and music: Calvin Klein and Tony Bennett are A&D alumni along with a myriad of badass mofos. I’ve written about A&D before as it certainly has played an important part in the comics industry and has for many decades.
A&D is the backdrop for this piece, but that’s pretty much the extent of the industry tie in. This piece is about a love story and A&D is the only way I can justify it appearing here. I beg your indulgence, but I think this is a love story that deserves to be told to as many romantics as possible and the comic book and pop culture world is nothing if not a group of romantics.
We are a group of romantics. Consider the following from my comic book journey… I shed a tear over Gwen Stacy’s death. I felt a real sense of tragedy when Jean Gray killed millions as Dark Phoenix. I felt horrible for Matt Murdock when he found out the love of his life was a drug addict and a whore. Comics are full of stories that bring out the romantic in all our little geek hearts.
This story happens to be true. This is the story of A&D students Frank & Debbie.
I know I’m pushing it but I humbly beg your forgiveness as I compose this as if I’ve written it for Frank and Debbie alone.
I’ll understand if you skipped this article and instead went back to playing Injustice. If I were you I’d skip it… but I’m an asshole.
“Fine Tall Guy With The Kissable Lips and that Mack smile?” Debbie you said that was your first impression of Frank when you saw him on the A&D escalators?
Nope.
That fine tall guy with the kissable lips was I Debbie. Frank was the guy behind me asking for a breath mint, a pick (white people ask somebody) and a clue when he saw you.
You just think you met him on the escalator as I wiped your mind clean of the first meeting with my powers. Hello!! Master Of The Universe here! Your first meeting actually happened when Frank was coming out of the 7th floor bathroom.
Remember the 7th floor bathroom and the assemblage that used it?
Yes, yes you do.
I was covering for him (long story he was drunk) when he lost his mind and saw you.
It’s well known that ever since A&D I’ve been the crazy one of our tight knit group but I will digress for a rare moment and speak from the heart.
I remember ALL my A&D girlfriends. Pretty Jackie Brown (way before the movie) Carol Rivera (oh my god she was fine) Lynn Jacobs (she was in the 9th grade I was in the 11th…yeahhhh jail bait) and for about 3 days Althea Hill (she was a stone cold fox but a bit eccentric. How so? I found out we were no longer an item when she decided to get mad at me for dating Jackie…the year before.)
Jackie broke up with me.
Carole broke up with me.
Althea broke up with me
Tony Tutt pointed out to me that dating a 9th grader was just stupid. I should have noticed that when I’d call Lynn at home and her mother would pick up the extension and tell Lynn it was bedtime. I decided to take Tutt’s advice and break up with Lynn but before I could…
Lynn broke up with me.
BTW, Lynn lead me to believe she was in the 11th grade when I first met her… lying little bitch.
Frank not only did you keep Debbie as your girlfriend from the moment you two were an item in high school but you married her after high school and she is still your wife and the love of your life. Debbie, those ‘break ups’ you were refer too?
Bullshit.
Frank, I remember you telling Tony & I (who was my best fucking friend in A&D and beyond until we lost touch) that you guys had broken up. He and I just gave you a “yeah right” look.
The only people who thought you guys ever broke up were you two. Those ‘break ups’ were always about a day. If the break up went a week it was because school was closed for Christmas break. If it went 2 days it was a weekend, etc. You get the drift.
But I digress; Frank you were able to keep Debbie and every single girl I dated in High School woke up one day and said, “Michael Davis?? What the fuck and I thinking?”
I was a bit envious of that. But I also loved you guys like family so I was happy for you. Although I will never ever forgive Frank for bragging about having his girlfriend with him on the senior weekend trip to the dude ranch. All the other guys in our group spent two days trying to get a girlfriend…for the weekend.
Bastard.
Anyway-you guys are the real deal. A real love story. To this day I can’t think of you guys as individuals I have to think of you as Frank and Debbie.
I would not be surprised if you looked up soul mate in the dictionary there would be a picture of Frank & Debbie.
Happy birthday Frank. I love you man and you as well Debbie. Oh and Debbie if (when) you find Frank’s secret Asian porn collection I’m here if you want to talk…
Lastly, to the girls who dumped me in high school.
I’ve done all right for myself, all right as in I have a Ph.D., homes on both coasts, I’ve written books, created TV shows, I lecture all over the world, have a motherfucking school auditorium named after me and none of that is even the most impressive things I’ve accomplished.
How you like me now?
OK, OK, I can’t hide my feelings by bragging about things that in a moment I’d give up for any one of you. Carole, take me back. Jackie I still love you, Althea forgive me.
When I started writing this column, I was also in the midst of excitedly making plans for Awesome Con, which took place this weekend in Washington, DC. Plans for seeing friends I hadn’t seen in months; plans for meeting up with people I’d only talked to on the Internets; plans for dinner with awesomesauce con guests; plans for what panels I wanted to try to see; and plans for what costume(s) I was going to wear. My head was full of happiness and excitement and anticipation for a local convention that focuses on so many of the things I love.
And then as I was catching up on general geeky news, I read this. It’s something everyone should go read in full, along with this second account of the incident, and with this account of an earlier incident that’s even worse. Seriously, go read it. I’ll wait.
• • • • •
Now that you’re back (and just in case you didn’t follow my instructions to go read those posts) what is recounted in the most recent links is yet another account of female cosplayers (a group of Tomb Raider cosplayers in this instance, ranging in age from fifteen to thirty-one) being treated inappropriately at a con, which is the short-hand or mild way of saying that they were, with a single question from some random male “reporter,” embarrassed, dehumanized, harassed, discomfited, unwillingly sexualized, and disrespected (at the very least) because they chose to wear costumes at a convention.
The best part of this (and by “best” I mean absolute worst. Worst!) is that when this asshole was confronted by Meagan Marie, Community & Communication Manager at Crystal Dynamics (developers of Tomb Raider) about his inappropriate behavior, he had the gall to call her an “oversensitive feminist” (forget the fact that she was there as a professional, representing the actual, official product; she’s a giiirrrrrl so it’s okay to dismiss her words and actions) and then to say that “the girls were dressing sexy, so they were asking for it.” (Otherwise known as the “cosplay is consent” argument.)
Seriously, this stuff makes me so mad it takes away my coherency, leaving me spluttering things like, “What the – Where do these guys come from? Were they raised by wolves?? Lecherous wolves???” Or, slightly more coherently: What goes through a man’s mind that makes him think it’s acceptable to treat a total stranger as an object, and make her uncomfortable like this? And to think that it’s actually funny, or clever, or…whatever? And do these men want to be perceived as terrible, sexist jerkwads? Because that’s how it works out, though I can’t imagine that’s the goal. What is the goal? I don’t know.
I’ve actually seen some of these guys post online in response to women speaking out about such behavior, saying, “But how can we knowwwwwww what someone will take offense to? It’s like all the ruuuuuules have changed since yesterday when it was the fifties. And nobody told me!!”
Well, I can’t speak to every situation, but I can provide a set of general guidelines. Everyone has their own level of comfort with sexual behavior, but when you don’t know someone, you can’t assume their level of comfort. Therefore, if you want to be “safe” and not harass strangers (a fairly simple-seeming proposition to me, but apparently many people don’t know how not to harass strangers), then here’s a basic flow-chart style guide you can use to ensure you’re not being a harassing jerk to strangers, and more particularly women, you don’t know:
(1) Do you know the woman you’re about to speak to or interact with?
(a) No.
(b) Yes.
(2) If answer is (a):
–> Behavior you should not engage in:
(i) Do not touch the woman. No, not there. Not there, either! And not there!! Don’t. Just don’t. (Addendum: if the woman touches you, e.g. for a photo they’ve consented to where they put an arm around you or something, do not touch the woman anywhere that they are not touching you, or in any way that they are not touching you.)
(ii) Do not make specific comments about (or stare lecherously at) the woman’s body, body shape, body parts, etc. (e.g. “You have such a great ass!” *leer*)
(iii) Do not comment on the woman’s looks in a general sexual way. (E.g. “Daaaamn, you’re hot.”)
(iv) Do not make sexually explicit or suggestive comments about you and the woman or what you want to do to or with the woman. (e.g., “All I can think about right now is fucking you.”)
(v) Do not take inappropriate photos of the woman. (e.g. “upskirt” photos or other things that are voyeuristic and often actually illegal.)
(vi) Do not act like something is “all in good fun” or pretend it’s okay when the woman is clearly uncomfortable or unhappy about it or has asked you to stop whatever you’re doing. Stop what you are doing, and apologize if you can see or have been told that you’ve made the woman uncomfortable.
(vii) Do not put a woman on the spot while doing any of the other things listed here, e.g. by doing any of these things while recording the woman on camera or voice recorder or while talking to her in front of a crowd of other men who you know and/or who are paying attention to the conversation.
(viii) When in doubt, pretend your grandmother and/or mother and/or someone with actual manners is standing next to you. Adjust your behavior to what it would be in the presence of your female family members or someone with respect and consideration for other people. Stay in that zone.
–> Behavior you may engage in:
(i) Compliment the costume itself! (e.g. “That is a fantastic Spider Woman costume! It looks so authentic! Where did you get it? / Did you make it?” and similar.)
(ii) Talk further with the woman about your mutual love of the character/comic/show/etc. if they initiate further conversation or show interest in it.
(3) If answer is (b):
(i) If you know the woman slightly (have just run into them at a con before, or exchanged a few sentences, or chatted briefly about generic topics), see (2).
(ii) If you know them fairly well and/or are actually friends, stick with (2) until you’ve gauged their comfort level with comments or compliments that have a sexual component, based on their actual interactions and conversation and statements. When in doubt, see (2), and bear in mind that not only do women have different comfort levels, but that these levels also vary based on the person they’re interacting with, factoring in things like how well they feel they know the other person, whether they trust them, whether they are comfortable with them, etc. (e.g. a woman may feel comfortable joking around about sexual topics with, or receiving a physical compliment from, one person and not another.)
(4) In all situations, remember to treat women as people, not objects.
Well, there you go! This may not be a perfect guide, but for anyone out there who desperately needs a clue about this stuff, it is a good place to start.
On a personal note, the stories shared by cosplayers who have been harassed resonate with me, because I have been harassed, too. I have had experience with examples (i) through (iii) of my guidelines for things not to say or do to total strangers/women you’ve just met at a con, and I was actually the recipient of the exact example statement I used in (iv). Years later, I still remember how dehumanized and uncomfortable I felt at that moment, and I doubt I’ll ever forget it.
I also identify with the point Meagan made in her post regarding how differently she reacted when harassment was aimed at her versus at another woman, and how when she was the recipient of harassment, she often laughed it off or let it pass. For my own part, while I have told people off for acting inappropriately towards me, sometimes I am so shocked at what’s just been said to me, completely without justification or permission, that my brain literally doesn’t process it until it’s too late to react as I should. I’d imagine I’m not the only one this happens to. This is when it’s good for others to step in if they witness the situation, and when it helps to be “prepared” (sadly) for things like this by thinking ahead as to how you would want to react.
And now, on to something slightly “positive” regarding this topic; which is that the unfortunate incidents linked above, and others like them, have spurred a neat idea, the Cosplay =/= Consent (“Cosplay does not equal consent”) photo project, as outlined here. Essentially, the blogger is collecting photos of people in costume at cons holding a whiteboard that says, “Cosplay =/= Consent” and then posting them as part of a photo . I think images like that and comics like this one are a great way to distill the points that I’ve made above regarding the treatment of cosplayers at cons down to a simple rule that everyone can remember. And the idea is already catching on! While at Awesome Con (which was, indeed, awesome) I actually ran into someone who had one of these signs (yay!) and took some pictures to share here. I encourage people to continue enforcing these ideas about behavior through the signs or any other means they find effective.
Maybe if enough people do that, we won’t even have to talk about this anymore, and can instead just focus on awesome convention things, like, e.g., the fantaaaaastic interviews with Phil LaMarr, Billy West, and Nick Galifianakisthat I did at Awesome Con and will be sharing with you over the next few weeks.
Until then, keep promoting the idea that cosplay does not equal consent, and Servo Lectio!
Orson Scott Card does not like gay people. In fact, I think it’s fair to say he hates gay people. Orson Scott Card is writing Superman stories for DC Comics. A lot of people are pissed over that, but DC is standing by their man.
But will Orson Scott Card still stand by DC?
Why, you ask, would I ask that? Because DC Comics now has a transgender character the first ever in comics…except for Johnny Storm but he is on the down low and come on, that’s so freakin’ obvious. DC’s new transgender character is also…wait for it…wait for it…
Wait for it… Bisexual!!
But wait! There’s more!
Alysia Yeoh is her name (I think she’s Asian and if so…hot!) is the roommate of Batgirl!
Batgirl is living with a bisexual transgender hot Asian woman. Clearly Orson Scott Card won’t want to write Batgirl and who knows he may just quit Superman after his extreme right wing hate buddies start bitching about the Gay Mafia which is now clearly running DC Comics.
Man, I’d love to write that book but the odds of me writing anything for DC are about as good as Obama getting an A rating from the NRA.
Wait. That’s not true. I almost forgot I wrote a piece for the Static Shock Dwayne McDuffie tribute issue. That’s a good a sign as any that someday I’ll work on another DC Comics project. Hell, that’s not a good sign, that’s a great sign.
On the other hand, they still haven’t paid me for that piece… which could be considered a sign also.
Shit.
But I digress (sorry Peter hope you are doing well my friend). Orson Scott Card may not even care that Batgirl, an iconic major character in the DC Universe is shacking up with an bisexual transgender hot Asian woman.
Yeah, right.
Someday soon a reporter, journalist, creator or fan will ask Card in a public forum for his reaction to the bisexual transgender hot Asian woman living with Batgirl and when they do I hope Card responds and doesn’t dodge the question.
Will he stand by his homophobic hateful views and then have to answer what will surly be a follow up question along these line “Will you continue to work for the company that considers this type of lifestyle, which you abhor, a legitimate one?”
That is the rock and hard place that Card will find himself between. Hope for his sake neither rock or hard place are names of guys but just a metaphor.
White Winter Black Night is the title of one of the novels I’m writing. Simon & Schuster will publish the book in 2014.
(Michael ran this piece on 
