Mix March Madness 2012 Webcomics Tournament Finals: Gunnerkrigg Court vs. Goblins!

Glenn Hauman

Glenn is VP of Production at ComicMix. He has written Star Trek and X-Men stories and worked for DC Comics, Simon & Schuster, Random House, arrogant/MGMS and Apple Comics. He's also what happens when a Young Turk of publishing gets old.

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683 Responses

  1. Nimotaa says:

    Go Goblins!

  2. Zathyra says:

    This is really a tough choice now.

    I read Goblins for years now and found GKG through this tournamment and can´t stop reading it.

    I like the art in both comics, I like the plot, the pacing…

    I propably end up in voting for both comics equally often >.> but I just can´t decide.

    • Hsg says:

      This is exactly my situation. I love goblins and have read it for years, but then I read thru GKC in two days and loved it just as much. I’m probably going to abstain.

    • Hoogomoogo says:

      Actually, for me it is the reverse. I have been reading GKC for ages, and found Goblins through this tournament (thank goodness, I love it). My vote will still go to GKC, but Goblins definitely deserved to get this far!

      Btw, Congratulations to the REAL winners: The people that found new webcomics to follow!

  3. User 18 says:

    Gunnerkrigg Court. Having now read 7 of the final 8 comics, I honestly don’t think Goblins deserved to make it that far. It’s good, but not in the same league as some of the other comics in the top 8, let alone the top 4.

    • SharesLoot says:

      Webcomics aren’t only comics, they are also about the author, the fans and the community. By itself, Goblins doesn’t have mind-blowing art or text (although I like the comic a lot and find it lovely, moving etc.), but everything around it has got me hooked. I guess that’s a bit what MSPA fans feel like (maybe a bit more zealously than me, i.e. they say their favorite comic is perfect).

      Anyway, I am happy to see Goblins get here and hope it will win, but I like GC a lot as well.

      • benzrf says:

        MSPA is DEFINITELY not perfect. It’s just that it’s REALLY polarizing. Most people either love it life crazy or hate it to death; it has a lot less in between then usual. Therefore, quite a lot of fans you talk to will really, really like it.

        • Anonymous says:

          I’m in between! :D My friend likes it a lot and always sends me things from the fandom and random pages and explains things to me, so I’ve heard a lot about it, and I think it’s pretty alright. But at the same time, I don’t think I’ll ever want to actually read it. It’s just not my style of comic.

          • benzrf says:

            Well, two things:
            1. You haven’t actually read it, so you don’t count. >:P
            2. I never said that there was NOBODY in between, just a lot less than most comics.

          • Anonymous says:

            1. D: I so do count. I’ve seen enough of it to judge! That’s like saying you need to read all four Twilight books to say you don’t like it.
            2. Oh yes, I know. :3 But I haven’t seen many people commenting who are in the middle, so~

  4. Yrr says:

    “Both strips pulled off tremendous upsets in the last round, beating such webcomics as Homestuck and Order Of The Stick, to make it to the final showdown.”

    “Both strips […] beating […] Homestuck”

    Votes for MSPA/Homestuck: 11,250

    Votes for Goblins: 9,994

    Ahaha what?

    Seriously, this whole brackets thing is incredibly inaccurate, MSPA would take second place if this was done by number of votes, or even first if Andrew Hussie hadn’t told his fans to vote for GKC instead.

    • Dusk9 says:

      Actually, I’m pretty sure that quite a few Goblins fans (myself included) are also MSPA fans, and voted for both comics last turn – I know of quite a few like me from just the forums.
      The same way Goblins-OOTS fans were voting for both comics up until the previous round, at which point they had to choose between them, dropping the number of votes each one received.

      This bracket method is actually the most accurate for comparing two different comics, as it forces you to choice between them – what it fails at is comparisons across the brackets.

    • RJ says:

      Stop complaining, accept it, move on, and vote for Gunnerkrigg already.

    • Matt says:

      I think the intended meaning of the sentence was that GC and Goblins pulled off tremendous upsets: beating MSPA and OOTS respectively. (Not they both pulled off both feats)

    • Moose says:

      It would be an entirely different contest if it were just a matter of total votes, and it is much harder to compare the vote tallies across games under a bracket system. In this particular contest voters can vote in both contests and vote AGAINST comics, so comparing final vote tallies is almost meaningless.

      In my case, I read GC and I started to read MSPA… and found that I had no interest in reading hundreds if not thousands of pages just for MSPA to get good when the opponent was infinitely better. So in that contest I was mainly voting AGAINST MSPA, even though my favorite in the contest was and still is Goblins. I didn’t bother voting in the Goblins v OOTS contest after the first day because it was ahead by a sizable margin.

      My main point is that the contest wasn’t between MSPA and Goblins, it was between MSPA and GC. If this were just about vote totals it would be an entirely different contest, it WOULD just be a popularity contest because people wouldn’t be forced to choose directly between two specific comics they might like.

      Anyways… my $.02

    • mightycleric says:

      First of all, that is an intentional misreading of that post. It obviously is not saying what you are making it look like it says by adding “…”

      Second, when it comes to most votes, you only looked at round 6 for your data, so let us look at a more complete picture of such information.

      In Round 1, Cyanide and Happiness and Girl Genius both beat MSPA in that bracket (and 8 other webcomics, including Goblins, also beat it).

      In Round 2 MSPA again was behind C&H and GG in its bracket (and 13 other comics, including CAD, which lost that round, and Goblins, beat it).

      In Round 3 MSPA was still behind C&H and GG in the Giraud bracket (and 12 other comics, meaning that the only winner that MSPA got more votes than was Something Positive).

      In Round 4 MSPA did much better, but still didn’t manage to take the top spot in votes (that honor went to xkcd).

      In Round 5, MSPA again ended up getting the second most votes (but this time, it ended behind Goblins).

      Finally, in Round 6, it again did not get first, as that went to GKC.

      Overall, though, Goblins got more votes than MSPA 4 out of 6 rounds (and had more total votes, by a few thousand), so that argument doesn’t really help your cause. Goblins has made it to the finals, and they deserve to be there. If you want to total up votes from every round, go ahead, but it still wouldn’t give MSPA the win over Goblins.

  5. zero says:

    MSPA had more votes at the final. What happened? Did some Florida shenanigans happen?

  6. RJ says:

    Gunnerkrigg Court is the best comic currently running on the internet.

    Goblins is, on the other hand, a middling D&D-based fanwank with Not Very Good Artwork and average writing.

    There is absolutely no comparison between the two.

    • MrCheese2021 says:

      I’m sorry, but GKC is nothing special in the art department so I’m not sure where you are going by putting down Goblins’ artwork. And more to the point, these are both great comics so there is no need to start throwing insults.

    • Dusk9 says:

      Thank you for well-reasoned and polite contribution.

      I am not a D&D fan – I’ve never played it in my life, and likely never will. However, Goblins is still my favourite webcomic on the internet, not just because I enjoy the story and art, but also because of the reasons Shares pointed out above – the active, close-knit community, and the willingness of the author to regularly interact with his fans as equals. THunt is a genuinely nice guy, and puts his heart and soul into the comic, often at the cost of his own happiness.

      Now, I’ll admit I don’t know much about GC’s community – I first read the comic over a year ago now, and while I did find it interesting, it’s never been a ‘regularly checking for updates’ comic for me. But, from what I’ve seen checking the forums, it seems to be largely quiet and, for lack of a better description, dead – again, just my (quite possibly wrong) opinion.

      Anyway, I’m getting a bit off tangent here – my point is, there are a lot of people who love Goblins for what it is, not just as a lossly D&D based comic, but also a great community and distraction from the more mundane apsects of real life. So, if you could refrain from resorting to insults, it would be much appreciated.

      • Count Specula says:

        Dude, he didn’t insult anyone, he was just stating his opinion on the quality of the comic, and there are a ton of people who agree that Goblins, despite its popularity, isn’t particularly good.

        • Dusk9 says:

          I’m sorry, but “a middling D&D-based fanwank with Not Very Good Artwork and average writing.” sounds very much like an insult to me. Maybe I’m just not good at detecting negativity through the internet.

          Also, I have nothing against opinions – what I dislike are opinions that are seriously stated as unquestionable facts, especially if they have a negative, insultive undertone to them.

          • Morgan Wick says:

            It’s an insult against the comic, not a person.

          • Not to be a butt... says:

            So someone’s opinion isn’t valid if it’s negative?

            If he was trying to insult, the language could have been much worse than “middling”, “average” and “not very good.”

    • Dendrago says:

      “…Not Very Good Artwork and average writing”
      I’m sorry, but did you even read past the first few pages? Yes, the art sucks at first, but Thunt has developed a HELL of a lot since then. Just go look at his forenote at the very start; he even specifically states it.
      And yes, it starts off a bit slow and comedy-based, but again, it picks up a ton from there. Don’t discount an entire comic based off the beginning.

    • Will says:

      I doubt that you’ve even read any substantial amount of Goblins, and even if you think the art is “not very good”, let’s face it, it still surpasses Gunnergrigg Court’s (while Court’s art is still decent and adequate).

      • monokuma says:

        aw, don’t be too hard on rj, he’s just stressed out because he knows that as much as he pushed the mspa fans to vote gkc instead, if gkc loses now it’s basically his butt on the line ;j

  7. Wolfie says:

    If Goblins sucks so bad, how did it make it into the Finale?

    I think Goblins is a great webcomic. The art has come so far since its inception and keeps getting better. I love the intertwined story lines and it looks to get better and better as the plots progress. Tarol has been a fulltime artist/writer/anything the comic needs for a long while now and Tom Siddell has only recently made that step. (Go him, btw.)

    I’m also a huge fan of Gunnerkrigg Court. The storyline for it is pretty good, although I want to throttle a couple of the characters every so often and a couple chapters completely lost me for a bit.

    They both deserve to win so good luck to them both!

    • Matt says:

      While I will not argue your conclusion that Goblins deserves to be here (I haven’t finished reading it yet, so I withold any judgement until then), your rhetorical argument “If Goblins sucks so bad, how did it make it into the finals?” is flawed because of the nature of the bracket-style tournament. Getting this far only shows that it is better (assuming the contest is valid) than other comics in the same bracket- you cannot conclude anything about how it compares to everything not in the same bracket.

      (tldr: Making it into the finals does not make it at least 2nd best. It only makes it at least (n/2 + 1)th best where n is the number of comics in the tournament)

      • Bob says:

        The mere fact that Goblins -soundly- defeated such greatness as Looking for Group and Order of the Stick says that it deserves to be where it is. I won’t say anything bad about GC because there’s nothing bad to say about it, I like it -almost- as much as I do Goblins.

        Perhaps a way to guarantee the true winners in a given round does indeed advance, is to make it so you can cast one vote for one comic in each round, then everyone would only vote for their favorite.

    • someone says:

      It is a mystery.

      I don’t hate Goblins. But I find it overall mediocre, plagued with poor pacing (fight scenes that take forever, random dungeons with plot-irrelevant challenges that also take forever to solve and cannot even begin to have a justification to exist beyond “it’s a dungeon”, clumsy Deus-Ex-Machina avoidance by dropping huge walls of texts on the unsuspecting reader, etc.), mediocre art (the characters look misshapen as soon as they start to move), and a plot making hazardous digressions (did we really need to be introduced to parallel universes and an evil parallel universe twin of a protagonist as part of a random dungeon on the path of a secondary group of characters?).

      There certainly are worse comics out there, including amongst the nominations to this contest; but the idea Goblins won over OotS still puzzles me, and the idea it might win over Gunnerkrigg Court is just … It’s just this.

      Gunnerkrigg Court is one of the best long-form comics on the web, the art, the writing, the characterization, the panel layout… — all parts of it are excellent; and the author is humble and professional about it. Gunnerkrigg Court really deserve a win here, on all accounts.

      • Moose says:

        First point, I’m assuming you’re talking about the Axe of Prissan text when you mention Deus Ex Machina (as that is one of 2 instances where I can remember Thunt using walls o’ text), and I can understand why you might classify it as such. However, I strongly disagree with the notion that this is some kind of avoidance strategy on Thunt’s part and that it is anything short of well thought out. The comic is written out in its entirety, and has been since well before the scene in question. That was an unfortunate case where the information about the axe could not be revealed prior to the page where a particular character appears to be killed without losing the impact of the next page. I think whatever awkwardness was caused by that 1 page is mitigated by the fact that the item in question actually has an astonishingly detailed history. Thunt has released pages on 7 of the 13 known past named owners of the Axe of Prissan (not including the two axe wielders who actually appear in the comic).

        Unfortunately, many of these more intricate background details are either only mentioned in hardcopy or ebooks, or they were only up temporarily. As a result, the amount of background detail is difficult to pick up on for the average reader. (Thunt took down all of the axe pages shortly after revealing them so that they can be used in a future ebook). However, if you look for it you can spot elements of the comic that don’t appear for several books in the comic.

        Personally, I think that the fact that the entire story is planned out is one of the strongest points of the comic.

      • Dammerung says:

        Sorry to disagree here someone, but I see it differently.

        Goblins art is a bit rough somedays yes but the story has been one of my favorites, providing plenty of re-reading and enjoyment on a regular basis.

        Gunnerkrigg however despite being one of my constant reads doesn’t provide NEAR the re-reading that I get out of Goblins.

        You hate the random dungeons and the fight scenes and the side plots but I find them endearing.

        Not bashing on GKC, I do agree its one of the best comics but I didn’t chose it over goblins.

      • Matt says:

        The types of narrative “flaws” you cite, someone, seem to me to be satire of such flaws, as they present themselves in the way many people run DnD or similar tabletop RPGs. To me, it’s clever, amusing satire of such gaming conventions, and that’s what tickles me about it, and why it’s had my vote most rounds, except when it was up against my favorite comic, Unsounded.

        • Matt says:

          Wait, it was never against Unsounded. What was I smoking? Wishful thinking that Unsounded made it that far, heh.

  8. FuzzyZergling says:

    Personally, I’m voting for Goblins.
    It’s not that Gunnerkrigg is a bad comic, I just think Goblins is far superior. Gunnerhrigg just doesn’t appeal to me, even though it’s high quality.

  9. Hannah Faraday says:

    I think that next time, a better thing to do would be to go not on brackets, but just on voting numbers alone.

    Then we wouldn’t have the ‘blahblah only won because it was against bluhbluh’ or ‘bluhbluh would be winning if the voters weren’t divided’.

    • Mia says:

      To check for popularity alone, yes, that would be the best method.

      What I think would make a far more interesting contest, would be if the comics competed in different categories: artwork, writing, pacing (both from reading it as it updates and reading the archives in one go, as they tend to be very different), style, characters (their personalities and memorability), character designs, setting, background art, originality, presence of both the creator and the fanbase (how they behave, if they’ve done interesting activities/charities, how nice they play with other fanbases, etc.), those kinds of things.

      I think it would be interesting because, by comparing it to the popularity contests, it would help us see just what combination of factors -or what factors by themselves- attract the most interest, and what kind of interest they attract.

      • Glenn Hauman says:

        We did consider breaking it up by frequency; as a strip that does a page a week is different than a daily strip, and on and on. We may still do so at some point.

        • homestuck fan says:

          In such a case, MSPA would be in its own “frequency bracket” by a very wide margin.

        • techloveartist says:

          Yeah, I think some things would be interesting next year are:
          1) Polls visible only to ComicMix
          2) Have different categories for formats/genres.

        • Ancient One says:

          Just my two cents, but I think it might be a good idea that future tournaments at ComicMix not include a comment thread. I notice that people tend to get more nasty when they can so easily post a somewhat anonymous comment in this particular section of the page area. However, in the social media plugin area, I notice that the conversation is much more civil, (perhaps because they can only hide so much behind a twitter or Facebook account). Providing a place for such flame wars doesn’t benefit anyone, the comics, the authors, ComicMix, or its sponsors. I respectfully think this feature should be discontinued if it continues to be abused.

    • Matt says:

      Probably the BEST way to do it would be a Round-Robin, since that gives the most information and is the most fair. It would take way too long, though.

      • User 18 says:

        Not if all the voting proceeded simultaneously

        • Matt says:

          Ah yes, that’s true. You could parallize it into one round. Of course then it would have 16,256 poll options which /might/ be a bit off-putting :D

          Of course, that allows for users to vote in ways that violate transitivity (ie. A is better than B is better than C is better than A) which isn’t really meaningful.

          It could instead, then, be changed to a ‘rank these comics in order’ in which you can also add ties, but the problem with that is that you need to have read all 128 comics in order to make a meaningfull vote.

          I guess then you could just do the above, but make a vote not require all 128 comics to be ranked: only the ones you have read. Of course, that makes it somewhat anticlimatic (well, maybe that’s not the best word) having the contest only go for one round.

          Yeah, I’m rambling on again about things peopel don’t care about, aren’t I? Yeah, I am.

        • Matt says:

          Actually, I just had another idea that could work quite well. Basically, take my last idea, but remove some information from it. Instead of giving an ordering, the voters could place the comics into, say, 5 tiers (plus a default “did not read / no oppinion” tier), and vote that way.

          This has 2 effects:
          1) It does not immediately determine a winner. You could eliminate the half of the comics with the lowest scores, then go again, making the contest a little more exciting
          2) It makes the vote easier for the voter since it should be much easier than deciding on a total ordering of all your favourite comics.


      • Glenn Hauman says:

        Exactly right. We might try a double-elimination tournament, though– we may do it for the NSFW bracket, as there's a smaller number of strips to deal with.

    • Glenn Hauman says:

      There are lots of webcomics lists that go just based on voting numbers already. We wanted to do something different– and based on the amount of outgoing traffic we've seen to other comics, it seems to work well.

      • techloveartist says:

        Honestly, I don’t really like fandoms butting heads all that much. I can agree that it is different but the air I think has been rather toxic with everyone trying to reason their personal opinion’s with the general population’s opinions. It is not that I haven’t been doing the same but I kinda want to see more of the fact of the fandom supporting their comics and less of the arguing. Maybe have stuff like (Insert Comic Here) Day posts and let the fans explain why their comics are great or something like that.

    • horse says:

      you seem to be assuming that the point is to find the best webcomic around in a fair manner, whereas i believe the real point is to advertise a bunch of webcomics. the fairest way to do a tournament, in my humble magic-playing opinion, is swiss pairings. but the way to best advertise these webcomics through a tournament-like structure is to make it similar to the basketball tournaments from which the flavor of the idea is drawn, thus making it a recognizable and understandable format for the maximum number of readers.

  10. Drillgorg says:

    MSPA fans for Gunnerkrigg Court!

  11. DF44 says:

    I went with GKC, although my vote tomorrow (if I can) will probably go to Goblins. I discovered both from this tourney, and I’m glad to see this finale.

  12. Count Specula says:

    Okay, I looked up this Goblins comic to see what the fuss was all about, and even looking past the lumpy, deformed-looking characters, one of the first things I saw was the phrase “If you expound to me your personal nomenclature…”

    A grown man wrote this sentence, looked at it, and was satisfied with what he considered good dialogue. There are people, thousands of people, who read dialogue just like it and continually defend it as good writing.

    HOW. WHY.

    • Drillgorg says:

      That character’s INT is so high that she forgets how to talk simply when she is flustered.

      …your point kind of still stands though.

      • Count Specula says:

        Yeah, NO ONE TALKS LIKE THAT. Not even socially awkward nerds. And believe me, I know socially awkward nerds.

        • Goblins says:

          Count Specula, that line of dialogue (and others by the same character) are suppost to be jarringly bad. In times of stress, she suffers from “increasingly redundant vocabulary”. In fact, there’s another character that interrupts her at one point and says “No one talk like that!”. Exactly as you have just done. I certainly did not look at that line of dialogue and think that it was good writing on its own. However, now that I see that a newcomer to my comic has looked at the dialogue and thought exactly what I mean for others to think, I’m quite pleased with myself. Thanks. :)

        • Mutterscrawl says:

          It’s just part of her character, the author’s fully capable of good grammar and the like.

    • Ash says:

      It’s a quirk for that specific character when she’s in stressful situations. She talks normal most of the time, however when stressed her sentences tend to get convoluted and overly complex.

      • Count Specula says:

        It’s still really bad writing, though. I know socially awkward people IRL who use big words at inappropriate times, and it sounds nothing like that. That sentence sounds like something a dopey or pretentious character would say in-comic when they’re trying too hard to sound smart, or when a hacky sitcom writer tries to write a “smart” character.

        • Ash says:

          Think of it this way. Have you ever had a time where you’re flustered and panicked and don’t know what to say you kind of ramble on saying words close to what you mean and you sort of get a point across, but it barely makes sense and the person you’re talking to has to take a moment to process it? Yuan-ti are naturally incredibly intelligent (sorry to start going d&d on you, but a half yuan-ti has a intelligence score of +8, meaning an average yuan-ti is on the same level as a human genius.) Part of the way that her intelligence is represented is by giving her a much larger vocabulary, so during these stressful situations she gets into that same babbling dialog that any other character would get into, however she’s drawing from a much larger range of words. Thus, that is how normally silly sounding sentences like the one above are created.

          It’s like how you wouldn’t read Harry Potter and pick out the line “wannagoballwithme?” as a representation of the entire books writing style. The character is clearly having a hard time forming a coherent sentences.

        • Dusk9 says:

          …….the point of the writing style isn’t to show that she’s smart, or socially awkward – it’s to show that when she’s in a highly stressful situation, she uses, as Ash put it, convoluted and overly complex sentences.

          OVERLY complex.

          As in, more complex then they needed to be, or would normally be in general conversation.

          Whether or not you’ve ever heard it within real life is irrelevant – what matters is that this is how the character in question reacts to certain situations.

        • Zathyra says:

          Kin is not a socially awkward character… read the comic before you judge.

        • Goblins says:

          Count Specula, again, you’re thinking exactly what readers are supposed to think when reading her dialogue. The exception being that you believe that I think it to be good writing by its own merit. Another quote from my comic, about the character in question…

          “You don’t sound smart when you talk like that! You sound like an idiot!”

    • Clammy says:

      Goblin is not “writing” comic. Goblin is “action” comic. If it was judged by writing and characterization, it would not have made it past OOTS. It has improved quite a bit since it started, but it is still weak in that regard.

      That is not what its fans are looking for, and while I personally consider strong writing and characterization to be far more important than action, that is not what Goblin uses for its appeal.

    • horse says:

      so, what you’re saying is that in order to judge whether or not you liked a piece of fiction, you chose to start somewhere in the middle rather than the beginning?


    • Maju says:

      LOL, that’s Kin, she sometimes speaks that way but that’s because she’s a traumatized yuan-ti (I think), it’s part of her personality and the fact that yuan-tis can’t love, at least not like humans do.

    • dains says:

      Jeez you all sound like a bunch of Kin’s kinspeople :P You could have just linked this – http://www.goblinscomic.com/02212009/.
      Count Specula, meet Kin. Kin, meet Count Specula. The rest is up to you two :)

  13. jess says:

    Come on Gunners, let’s try to get up to 12,000 votes for Tom.

  14. Aclaster says:

    Goblins is the best comic I’ve ever read, I’ve read others too, but none of them were like Goblins, and because this I’ll vote on it. And for those who criticized Goblins: If you really want to meet this story, read it from the start, because if you start from the middle or the finish you’ll not understand anything. Seriously, this comic is really worth reading, try it if you want to appreciate a good comic.

  15. Alvarin says:

    So in this round MSPA fans vote against Goblins. What GKC got to do with anything here anyway?

    Here is an idea for next tournament – include two three trivia questions about both participants of the bracket, so to vote one would have to actually know what they vote for/against.

    • Matt says:

      If you look at the MSPA forums, among other places, 95% of those MSPA fans are voting for Gunnerkrigg Court because they genuinely love the comic. It’s only a small minority voting because they dislike Goblins for whatever reason.

    • Goblins says:

      “So in this round MSPA fans vote against Goblins. What GKC got to do with anything here anyway?”

      You’re right that it’s not fair and it does give Gunnerkrigg a huge advantage. But if we were going to be totally fair, we’d have to say that OotS lost to Goblins purely because OotS wasn’t even trying. If OotS blogged/tweeted as much as I did, I’m positive he’d have won. There are a number of reasons why Goblins really should have been knocked out awhile ago. So it’d be hypocritical to start claiming unfairness NOW. I’m just lovin’ the fact that this tournament has got all sorts of people talking about webcomics that they wouldn’t normally have found.

      • Alvarin says:

        If OoTS didn’t try enough, that is not your fault. Using Author’s authority (sorry for that), on the other hand, to push votes for someone’s else comic and against someone else’s work is just unethical, I think.

      • Not to be a butt... says:

        GKC made it to the final 4 because it is excellent. GKC beat out MSPA because it is excellent. What makes you think that the same people who voted up GKC AGAINST MSPA aren’t numerous enough to vote it up now? If we’re just comprised of MSPA fans, how the heck did we beat MSPA in the first place?

        Implying that GKC is only winning because MSPA fans are voting for it is just plain insulting to Tom Siddell, who has created an amazing story and comic.

        • Not to be a butt... says:

          Also, before I get jumped on, I didn’t intend to imply that the MSPA and Goblins are not also excellent comics. :)

        • Ash says:

          I think the comment has more to do with the fact that, while many mspa fans love both comics, there is some buzz about the fact that Hussie pimped GC on his tumblr, and diverted a portion of the fanbase into voting for it simply because they felt that Hussie wanted them to (because MSPA fans would jump off a bridge if Hussie shrugged his shoulders and hinted that it he might think it was cool).

          However you are right, GunnerKC is excellent, and has very much earned it’s place among the best webcomics out there, just as Goblins has. I fear that many people in this round will be mindlessly voting for reasons other than just the comics merit.

        • techloveartist says:

          Yesh, it is insulting but there were multiple factors that included Andrew letting MSPA fans know about GC, there were plenty of MSPA fans that voted for GC (and at some point it seemed like sound like a cause to help Tom), and I have no doubt that there were other reasons as well.

          Calling GC winning just because it is excellent, although I wish it was true, disregards the fact that other people that did have other reasons. And it is not like MSPA didn’t have their reasons as well.

      • Maju says:

        C’mon, Thunt, there’s a reason why Goblins is always #1 in TWC. Sure: there are other great comics (incl. OOTS and Gunnerkrig Court) who also deserve to win but Goblins is for sure one of them and you know it. Not just for the comic, which is more than enough reason, but also for having such a friendly and nice author like you.

        • Morgan Wick says:

          Yes, there’s a reason why Goblins is always #1 in TWC: Goblins is the only comic with any audience whatsoever that’s still trying. No one else cares except people just starting out and trying to build an audience.

    • nan says:

      One can’t really object to MSPA’s author choosing to throw his contest, but you’re right that that shouldn’t carry over to where it affects a third party. People should be voting their conscience this round. Not that it really matters who wins – the $50 difference is a fraction of the benefit of this tournament to the entrants.

      GKC is simply excellent – I don’t think many people would vote for it dishonestly. It’s also different enough from Goblins that the contest is at once meaningless and interesting. I do think GKC more original, perhaps partly in that D&D homagery is necessarily constraining, and I hope it wins because I haven’t been struck by that kind of originality in a while (even if I at first thought it Potter-ish – it’s not). But mostly I hope people stay civil and remember that whether or not they grab your fancy, people work hard on comics:


  16. Mutterscrawl says:

    I’d read both Goblins and Gunnerkrigg before this, and was originally going to abstain because they’re both great comics and deserve the win, but after reading all the posts where Gunnerkrigg fans trashed goblins and insulted the author (who seems like a perfectly nice guy from what I can tell), I had to vote goblins out of principal.

    Gunnerkrigg will likely win regardless, and honestly, I hope the two authors talk since they seem like they’d get along, but seriously, the portion of the fandom for Gunnerkrigg that’s trashing Goblins needs to grow up and maybe actually practice some of the morals its characters and stories hold.

    • Niton says:

      There are some very legitimate criticisms of Thunt – such as that he’s the author of a webcomic in which almost nothing meaningful has happened in 5 years, that he can’t stick to his own update schedule, and that he abuses his readers for massive financial game. If your blinders are on high enough to not realize that he’s an incredibly lazy person who is every kind of fortunate that he has readers that support him, I dunno what to tell you.

      Goblins is one of the worst-drawn of all ‘major’ webcomics, to boot – even as someone who used to like the story, it just got too ugly to want to look at constantly.

      • Mutterscrawl says:

        Abuses for massive financial… what? I’ve been reading for years and haven’t spent a cent, he’s not abusing anyone :P

        Why’s he ‘lazy’ not busy?

        Also, the art style’s fine imo. What’s the objective standard we’re judging it by here?

        • Matt says:

          Presumably, shading.

          I ASSUME what he’s refering to as a “financial game” is the kickstarter campaign, which was Order of the Stick, not Goblins.

        • Niton says:

          Let’s start here: http://www.goblinscomic.com/tempts-fate-11/

          He got $46,000 dollars for his housing situation, starting in July 2011. The last page of that 4-piece comic, which was part of his ‘fundraising drive’, was supposed to be up by September 2011. It’s currently April 2012, and the last update to that page was October 2011, apologizing for the fact that the comic was already 2 months late.

          There’s ‘busy’, and then there’s ‘can’t make 3 pages of a comic that people paid $11,750 a page for’. The fact that the latter’s as it is is sad.

          The art style is harder to argue, since there’s no accounting for taste, but to many people (myself included), the lumpiness and over-detail are a huge detractor.

          • Moose says:

            Just curious Niton, exactly how much did YOU donate?

            What’s that you say?
            You’ve never donated so much as a penny because you’re upset about a FREE webcomic’s update schedule?
            Okay… so why are you so upset that other people freely chose to give money to the artist?

            As someone who DID freely donate a substantial sum (…or at least what would be considered “substantial for an unpaid intern… >_>) I am offended by your sense of entitlement. No one owes you anything, he’s providing a free comic and you don’t have to read it. Grow up.

            Maybe I’m wrong here and you did donate to the donation drive in question, in which case I sincerely apologize for the sarcasm, but… every single person I have talked to who has complained about Thunt abusing and ripping off his fans with the donation drive (of which there have been many) has either repeatedly ignored my first question, or admitted that they hadn’t donated. I have yet to hear a single person who actually donated come out and say that they are anywhere near as angry that tempts fate has taken so long as you seem to be.

            As far as Thunt’s “laziness” is concerned, I suggest you come spend a couple of days in the chat while he is broadcasting, and you’ll see just how much work it entails. I will admit that Goblins doesn’t have the best art of any webcomic, but it is very good and is improving constantly. Thunt is constantly pushing himself to create a better product, often creating more work for himself (on top of the extra work from keeping track of and drawing all of the battle wounds). Sure he /could/ rush out a sloppier product just to move the story along or just to get a page out, but he doesn’t because he refuses to settle for anything short of the best he can manage. I can respect that, and would hope others would too.

          • Zathyra says:

            On a sidenote, people who donated in the last tempts fate got original art from the comic or special charactersheets. Many of the donators took the chance to “buy” art from Thunt, since they could chose which panel, strip, page they wanted.

      • LordsBreed says:

        Thunt has not “abused” anyone, or anything. “Abuse: to treat in a harmful, injurious, or offensive way:” No one forced anyone to donate, it’s a sign of people’s respect that they wanted to help him.

        As for nothing meaningful happening in years, I assume you’re taking into account that for the first several years he updated every few MONTHS? You expect meaningful happenings with four updates a year? The new schedule has not been in effect for the majority of that time.

        As for his update schedule, so what? He doesn’t have a salary, it doesn’t cost any of us anything if he misses an update. A large portion of the comics that were in his tournament aren’t even brave enough to HAVE a schedule. They post without rhyme or reason.

        As for Goblins art style, it’s a different style. Would I have followed it if it had stayed how it STARTED? Not as much, but I really enjoy the artwork and the characters.

        I’m sorry that you rather have cowards who are too scared to have a schedule, or do sudden upsets for drama instead of writing the comic they set out to write.

        Going back to the “meaningful” comment, I am sorry that character development isn’t meaningful to you.

        • Niton says:

          Wait, getting $46,766 for a house and then not actually delivering on the 4 pages you’d offer isn’t an offensive way to treat donators? Thunt’s made a hell of a lot of money off of Tempts Fate, and he still can’t bother to actually make deadlines when people are [b]paying him to[/b].

          • Niton says:

            Ugh.. wrong tag style. The point is, do you know how many artists would kill to have $45,000 just given to them? To take that kind of windfall and then not follow up for the people who gave it to you is absurd.

          • Goblins says:

            Niton… Firstly, Tempts has no deadlines for the pages being drawn. I’m not sure where you’re getting your deadlines from. Secondly, I drew the promised four pages ages ago. Why then, is Tempts Fate not done yet? Because I want to put in more effort than promised and draw extra pages. I could have easily done four simple pages and walked away, but I’m doing extra work as an extra thank you. It’s taking a long time and I’m pretty embarressed about that, but I’ve already drawn the amount of pages promised. If you want to talk about how Goblins sucks, you can do that all you want. I have no problem with that. But if you’re going to claim that I’m ripping people off, you need to make sure your facts are in order first.

            Also, I draw seven days a week, 8-18 hours per day (when I’m not moving into a new home). If you think I’m exaggerating, come and watch the live feed. I have it on most of the time.

            You’re right in saying that there are a lot of legitimate criticisms about me though. Just… not a lot of them are coming from you.

          • Goblins says:

            *Crap. I forgot to mention that the “seven days a week” comment was in response to you calling me lazy.

          • Alvarin says:

            You consider the 45,000 as a one time payment. In fact, this is a “Thank You” for SEVEN YEARS of hard and free work. Do the math again. About the 4 pages – it is just a progress bar of donation meter, of a fancy variety. It was never to be connected in any way to main comic and will never take precedence over scheduled updates.

            I am sorry I speak in Tarol’s name. I think I should stop…

          • LordsBreed says:

            DONATING is not paying. It’s completely optional. Also, you didn’t say OFFENSIVE. You said ABUSIVE. Don’t try to change tacts mid conversation. And you keep trying to jam the PEOPLE PAID FOR THIS down people’s throats.

            Donations are a donation, not a payment. Not a requirement, not compensation. It’s done because you respect, care, etc, for the thing you are donating to. Tons of people would have STILL donated if Thunt if nothing came out of it.

            You have your own opinions, good for you, stop trying to force feed your hatred into a place that is not interested in it.

          • Wolfie says:

            Tempts Fate is the donation drive for THunt’s comic. He uses it as a way to get his readers involved in something with the comic. The more $ donated means the more epic TF would be against his opponents or the easier he would make it through his objectives.

            Tempts Fate 11 was done when THunt was losing his house and he specifically DID NOT WANT TO TAKE THE MONEY FROM HIS FANS since that would be akin to using them. His fans CONVINCED him to do it anyway and he raised over $30k in like 3 days. That was (and is) love from his fans. And yes, I did donate what I could. THunt shares his life with his fans. Watch the Ustream, follow his Tweets, read the forum, or read his blog. He is incredibly nice and treats everyone like family. He’s not abusive with his fans, or offensive. And those that think so in the beginning usually change their minds. Did it take him a while to finish TF11? Yes, but so what? Those that read the comic regularly know the effort he puts in. It’s hard to make this your full time job and he is juggling life along with the comic.

            How’s the phrase go… Judge a book not by it’s cover, but by the wealth of information inside.

      • Alvarin says:

        OK, I’ll take it slowly and try to be polite.
        1) “Nothing meaningful in 5 years” is called “character development”
        2) Update schedule is pretty stable other than little things like MOVING TO A NEW HOUSE
        3) “Financial game”?! it is a donation drive. everyone has a donation button. This just has bonus material. No one is FORCED to donate.
        4) “Lazy person” that is drawing/inking/colouring/shading/etc 7 days a week for 8~16 hours a day, on expense of fiance and children. Seriously.
        5) I agree, we are close community. And I think it’s because of our anchor, not the other way around.
        6) You seriously telling me that actual ART of Goblins is worse than OoTS or MSPA? did you just look on the second page? Check any of the pages from 5 years ago onward. They are at least on par with GKC and much better than other two semifinalists.

        Sorry, is any part seemed rude, I just found your post bit offending.

        • Frank says:

          I want to follow up on Alvarin’s point regarding “Nothing meaningful happening”.
          How about:
          1) Several major character’s dying (both heroes and villains).
          2) Characters evolving from generic monsters to heroes.
          3) Character goes catatonic after being ‘abandoned’ and makes a recovery when another MAJOR character is dying.

          And that’s only following the goblin characters not the other ‘heroic’ party.
          How is that for nothing going on?

          Disclosure: I have been only reading Goblins for about 2 months while reading GKC for about 2 years.

    • Not to be a butt... says:

      I’m sorry, but calling the whole GKC fandom out for a few trash-talky folks is not cool. Most of us are happy to read and support Tom quietly with our votes. The trolliest people are the loudest, as with any fandom. Don’t let their nastiness colour your opinion of GKC fans.

      • Goblins says:

        From what I’ve seen, GKC fans seem pretty awesome.

        By the way… here’s a question for the GKC experts. By your best guess, how long should it take me to read through all of the GKC archives? I want to dive into this thing, because the bits and pieces that I’ve seen look awesome.

        • Not to be a butt... says:

          Less than a day for sure. If you’re a quick reader, a few hours to half a day.

        • nona says:

          let’s say between one and three days, depends on how fast a reader you are, and how much time you have on your hands.

        • Anonymous says:

          Hmm, for me, I think it took three nights, but I don’t remember how much of those nights I was dedicating to reading it.

        • monkmunk says:

          As a reader of both Goblins and GKC i’d be super interested to hear what you think about Gunnerkrigg, once you dig in!

        • Morgan Wick says:

          Conversely, how long would it take me to get through Goblins?

      • Mutterscrawl says:

        I specifically said portion of the fandom :P

    • techloveartist says:

      GOG yes, and this goes for all of the fandoms…

      As fun as this tournament has been to some, it has only have been a mess to the fans. I am actually willing to read Goblins, GC, and OOTS a chance and honestly for the little I read from both the stories and fans, they all have their greatness and faults…they are all in different worlds to a point that these comics shouldn’t be butting heads.

      I was looking for fun…all it did was just mess up fandoms that probably would have gotten along very well in a different settings. :/

  17. Matt says:

    Yay, final round! Go Goblins! You can do it!

    I’ve read a decent chunk of both of these comics during the tournament up to this point, and GC seems fine, and I’m sure I will probably end up liking it more than I currently do, if I decide to catch up on the full archive, but what I’ve read of Goblins tickles my funny-bone and captures my interest much more successfully than GC does. But opinions differ, of course; perhaps I’m just a better fit into the demographics of the target audience. Good luck Thunt!

  18. Brokshi says:

    This is actually a hard decision. I’ve read Gunnerkrigg Court for longer, and Homestuck is telling me to, but Goblins a lot of likable characters, admittedly with less characterization than GKC’s main characters. As comics alone, they are pretty close, and I don’t want to bring fandom into this. But then I think about the updates. Tom is always on time with his updates, which are complete. Tarol, as of recent months misses some updates and continually arts up pages after they’re up, sometimes not finishing the pages. Sadly to say, Goblins, but at least in the regard of updating, GKC wins.

    • Moose says:

      Late updates are an unfortunate product of Tarol’s drawing process. From what I’ve seen, he is unwilling to compromise the base quality in order to rush an update. Judging from GC’s art style, each comic probably takes less time overall due to the level of detail. The art style just seems to be a bit more simplified. Note, this is not a criticism of GC’s art style, which I actually enjoy and is closer to how I tend to draw. Granted I haven’t gotten through the entire comic yet, and flipping through I have noticed some sections with far more detail, but in general it seems as though Tom uses less laborious detailing and various texture tools in photoshop.

      Admittedly Thunt /may/ create more work for himself than he needs to, especially since he got his tablet as he has kept many of the same methods as when he drew the comic by hand and added extra steps on top of them. His current drawing process after very rough drafts involves:
      1) draw panels (quick)
      2) pre-“pencil” comic (This is a rougher precursor to the penciling stage, normally done in blue)
      3) pencil comic (firming up the rough sketches)
      4) ink comic (draw the final lines over the rougher pencil drawing)
      5) color comic
      6) detailing (adding all of the reflections, shining elements, glow, shadows, shading, etc…

      Thunt has only been using the tablet for a year, so personally I’m hoping that he’ll improve with texturing tools and be able to get rid of some redundant steps. Even though I would love to see more updates or faster updates, I think the update schedule should be put in context of Thunt’s current situation (moving) and the relative amount of work that goes into the comic.

      Regardless of who wins I think either is worthy of the prize.

  19. Maju says:

    Epic final match. I could not decide (I follow both comics eagerly) so I checked the results and then voted for the underdog, which, rather unexpectedly was Goblins. I thought of abstaining but I really want both to win, a tie would be ideal.

  20. GreenIntern says:

    For people debating between Goblins and Gunnerkrig, I can tell you why I am voting for Gunnerkrig.

    Goblins is a comic about lumpy turd-people filled with raspberry jam, where the author thinks its alright to go on pages-long tangents about game mechanics and stupid pointless ‘backstory’ because its supposedly a D&D comic. It has sudden, shocking gore, and paper-cutout characters. The author/artist has some kind of bizarre fascination with slow-zoom-and-pan style shots which don’t work aesthetically.

    Gunnerkrig has some actual heart and soul. I am just through the first couple of chapters, and it’s just goddamn 100% better than Goblins.

    • GreenIntern says:

      Thunt is a whiny donation-baby. He didn’t even finish the latest Tempts Fate comic, from what I have seen. The comic that apparently BOUGHT HIM A HOUSE.

      • horse says:

        first off, the Tempts Fate/house money donation conversation is already in progress. go find it above.

        second, an essential action which any fiction reader/viewer must take is one of acceptance that the creator of the fiction being presented has absolute, 100% control over the universe in which that fiction takes place. if he makes a choice that all of his characters will look lumpy, then they will all look lumpy. a serious reader of fiction accepts that things in the fictional universe look however the artist wants them to look, and should not take that choice into account when comparing the work to one with a completely different artist.

        third, you say that you’re going to tell us why you’re voting for Gunnerkrig, but it seems to me that you are instead telling us why you’re voting against Goblins. see the difference? ‘x has heart and soul’ is not a valid statement. in order to make your argument more clear, you need to tell us exactly what heart and soul are, and list examples of how GKC has them and Goblins does not.

        • GreenIntern says:

          This is a popularity contest. Personal preference matters implicitly when we are making our votes here. If I prefer Gkrig’s art over Goblins’, then that is my preference. It doesn’t matter if Thunt sat down at his desk and said “I decree all goblins to be lumpy.” Talking about “serious readers of fiction” is also not a valid statement when debating what comic I should vote for.

          I doubt the majority of people voting in this poll are reading these. I’m mostly venting about Goblins anyway. Thunt does a lot of things in his comic that irk me. His gore porn is one of them.

        • NunswGuns says:

          “if he makes a choice that all of his characters will look lumpy, then they will all look lumpy. a serious reader of fiction accepts that things in the fictional universe look however the artist wants them to look, and should not take that choice into account when comparing the work to one with a completely different artist.”

          A serious reader of fiction doesn’t need to accept anything of the sort. If a reader finds the aesthetic off-putting or downright gross, they are free to reject it. Art is about the dialog between the artist and his or her audience, and if the audience finds some visual aspect of a comic repellant, that is their right.

          Don’t go around pretending you have to be some enlightened savant to appreciate when characters look shapeless and disconcerting like, so many of Goblins’ Goblins do. Fiction doesn’t excuse aesthetics.

          • horse says:

            i just don’t see ‘i think it’s ugly’ as a relevant critique of the comic as a whole. to say that something is drawn poorly is to imply that other artists have drawn it correctly, and even though the concept of goblins is not exactly new to the fantasy community, these particular goblins in this particular fictional world should be drawn in whatever way the artist wants to draw them. since nobody but Thunt had ever drawn these characters before him, he should be allowed complete artistic freedom to draw them however he wants, be that lumpy or just like in the d&d monster manual, and he should not be criticized for exercising that artistic freedom.

          • NunswGuns says:

            No one has said that Thunt should stop drawing the goblins the way he does. Or at least no one in this comment thread has said as much. Implying that we have is twisting our words (even if you’re doing it unknowingly).

            And I’ll darn well criticize his artistic choices. As a reader it’s my right to respond to art, and if my response is negative then so be it. No, it very likely won’t make Thunt change his aesthetic, but you know what? I’m not saying he has to. I’m saying I think the goblins are lumpy and sort of look like molded poop.

            Maybe that’s intentional? I don’t know but I can’t say it makes it easy for me to relate to the characters on an emotional level. Comics are a hybrid medium; a good comic has excellent visuals as well as an interesting narrative.

            I feel that Goblins fails at both. The pacing is all over the place, I don’t related to any of the characters, and I resent having to read pages and pages of uninteresting words. If a comic-maker has to resort to giant blocks of text to get a meaning across, they are not using the visual half of the medium to its fullest extent. I also find the tone clashes quite a bit. I can’t help but laugh when something is injured and bursts like an overfilled jelly doughnut, but at the same time I know I’m supposed to take it seriously and that pulls me out of the story.

            Again, I can’t stop the guy from drawing the comic, and as long as he’s enjoying himself I congratulate him on his success. But artistic license is not a free pass on any sort of criticism. Implying that fantasy work is above criticism because it’s fictional is hilariously silly. No aspect of art is above criticism. Analyzing aesthetic choice is a very basic and widely-accepted part of art criticism.

        • mrpibbleton says:

          Precisely, it is an artist’s right to make his comic look horrifically unattractive and drive people away. If someone can’t appreciate that then the problem is clearly with them.

    • Dry Tubeskin Therapist says:

      THIS. So much THIS.

    • Zathyra says:


  21. mrpibbleton says:

    I’m voting for Gunnerkrieg Court because it’s got awesome characterization, great story, amazing setting and the art improves by leaps and bounds. If you haven’t read it yet, read it now and appreciate the lack of snakewoman rape.

    • I says:

      You know lack of snakewoman rape is a definite plus to me. In all honesty this was a an easy decision, I’ve been a fan of Gunnerkrigg Court ever since I gave it a shot based on Neil Gaiman’s recommendation from his blog.

    • GreenIntern says:

      How could I have forgotten about snakewoman rape?

      Seriously, that was some of the most hamfisted Evil Speeches I have ever read, not to mention reading like nothing anyone would ever say.

      • Goblins says:

        Geez, you guys are harsh. I’d be a hypocrite if I said anything against it though. I’ve said “that movie sucks” or “that book sucks” and gone on about it. I forget what it feels like to be on the other end of those rants sometimes. Part of the job, I guess. :)

        • horse says:

          your comic is brilliant, keep ’em coming.

        • Cat says:

          Mr. Hunt, I have to admit that I’ve never read your comic and D&D based things are not usually something that fall into my general range of interests, but you, sir, are a gentlemen and a good sport, and for that I am more than willing to give it a go. I can see why you have such a rabidly supportive fanbase.

        • Mia says:

          Mr. Hunt, I haven’t taken the time to sit down and read your comic, but just skimming through some pages, I can tell that it’s pretty great.

          However, if you don’t mind a criticism…

          Your artwork is actually pretty good (the character design of the monsters is phenomenal, and you do know how to make perspective work), but what is really detracting from the quality of the final product is the flat coloring and the scarce shading.

          The colors themselves aren’t bad (although some more contrast between the palettes you choose for the characters and the backgrounds would help), but the way they are now they make everything look flat. With some more shading your art would really pop out and your linework would shine as it deserves.

          I remember, about a year ago, randomly coming across one page of your comic where you compared the work-in-progress (of a monster, I think) with the final result, which had fairly detailed shading, if my memory serves me well, and I thought to myself, “I want to draw that awesomely some day!”. I didn’t check out the rest of the comic at the time, just added it to my bookmarks with a vague reminder to do it later, but now that I checked it out, I was surprised to see most pages that didn’t have the same visual impact of that page.

          From the comments here it sounds like you have a busy schedule; and I don’t have the heart to tell you something like, “Yeah, well, go get a Time-Turner, or something, you need to do more work!!”, but if you could find an assistant (or, what the hell, an actual Time Turner :P) to help there I think it would make the quality of your comic shoot up considerably. (And like I said, it is already pretty good! I will have to sit down and read it all later.)

          I hope all of the above didn’t come across as terribly arrogant. It was just an observation that I thought worth making, although, now that I think about it, you’ve probably had this “suggestion” made repeatedly in the past. Oh, um, in that case, sorry!

          But, um, yes, good luck with the contest, and keep on rocking the webcomic scene!

          • SharesLoot says:

            Hey, I’ve got good news for you, Mia!

            Thunt has begun shading Goblins about a year ago and is improving his technique with every update. I guess you haven’t read the comic pages that went up within the last 12 months yet. At first, many fans protested because they thought it would mess up his schedule, but I think readers like you will be happy about it. No, Mia, your kind of feedback is great, because you dont spit out a few hateful words without viable arguments, but explain whyt you have to say. I hope you continue to enjoy reading Goblins as much as I do. Cheers!

          • Mia says:

            I kind of got lost navigating the archive (I still don’t understand how that happened), but I finally saw the most recent pages, and wow, you’re right! He did exactly what I was talking about. The comic has improved a lot!

  22. Calico says:

    Goblins ftw. I actually really enjoy the characters within and I’m a big D&D dork so the settings and characters are very “familiar”.

    Love Gunnerkrig too, after being introduced to it via this contest … but Goblins is more catchy.

    I hope it’ll be a closer match, to be honest :)

  23. randint says:

    Wow, lots of highly emotional comments around here…
    I hope people realize this is a popularity contest, not anything else.
    Whether you’ll find the comics listed here enjoyable is entirely dependent on your personal opinions, and preferences. It is not dependent on the number of votes comics get.

    That is to say, even if the comics you like better doesn’t win, that doesn’t make it any less awesome. Even if you think that its better than the other one – its still true. (for you and also apparently thousands more).

  24. Cheesestache says:

    I skimmed both comics, the difference that “irks” me the most is that I can’t fap to them krigggerz. I Like my lumps, my lumps, my lovely lady lumps.

  25. Bobson says:

    I know this is a popularity contest, but hopefully people keep in mind the sheer imagination and artistry involved in Gunnerkrigg Court. Well, okay, it’s rough at the beginning, but that was like, seven years ago, and Tom Siddell’s art style evolved and improved by leaps and bounds.

  26. Cat says:

    Okay, since we can’t seem to be nice about Gunnerkrigg without being mean about Goblins…ha ha.

    Reasons why you should consider giving the GKC archives a read, even if you don’t end up voting for it:

    1) The story, as an overarching whole, is simply amazing so far. It progresses in small chunks, yes, but Tom is an amazing storyteller. It seems like he has a very good handle on his plot and characters, and the man knows when to hold details back to keep you interested. The story grows in both scope and quality as the characters age and discover more about both themselves and the world around them.

    2) The artwork, while generally cartoonish and simplistic at times, is amazingly expressive and fitting of the story. Tom makes excellent use of this style, and while with bonus pages and prints he proves himself capable of beautiful artwork, the actual style of the pages is much more complementary to the tone of the story itself than a hyper-detailed version would be.

    3) Gunnerkrigg, while dealing with some very serious and mature themes, is a true “all ages” kind of story without sacrificing its appeal to the adult audience. It is not ‘childish’ but is suitable for children. A few years ago, one of the forum members was using it as an educational tool in his English-as-a-second-language classroom overseas, which is pretty neat.

    4) The variety of legends/folktales/cultural otherworldlies (I’m sorry, my vocabulary seems to have deserted me) adds a very interesting dynamic to the story. The focus on the Native American figure of Coyote in particular is incredibly interesting to see in such a predominantly British-inspired setting.

    5) Characterization. Oh my god, Characterization. Some of them take some time to grow on you, but wow. The sheer imagination behind some of the characters (ie. Zimmy) is phenomenal.

    6) Tongue in cheek silliness. Somewhere above, someone commented on the ridiculousness of the comic. Part of its charm is the cleverness involved in some of the gags – they’re amusing without being overly slapstick. A lot of the humour is subtle.

    7) The world of Gunnerkrigg Court is amazing and odd and full of surprises, but Tom does a very good job of presenting it all as simply “the way things are” without being glib about it. The main character Annie is enough of an outsider that we, the readers, get some of the explanations we need, but there’s none of the tiresome “Oh my god, everything is different and weird and I’m freaking out about it!” that so often happens in fantasy-world settings.

    While the above is certainly not a comprehensive list, I hope it will convince some of you to read beyond the first few chapters. :)

    Best of luck to both comics in the finale.

    • nona says:

      Another item on this list (not concerning the content but rather the web-aspect of the comic) could be the unshakable update-scedule. Tom has never missed an update since the comic started, all thanks to his buffer.

      This way all Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays are Gunnerkrigg-Court-Days. :)

      • Cat says:

        “Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays are Gunnerkrigg-Court-Days. :)”

        I know! I so look forward to MWF. Weekends are a bit sad because there is no GKC. :(

      • techloveartist says:

        MSPA has it’s own schedule that can be summed up like this:

        Then again… we do this for multiple reasons. ;p

    • Matt says:

      8) Once you’ve read through the archive once, don’t stop there. Read through it again sometime and you’ll notice a bunch of things you didn’t notice before because of the information you have now. Check out the “Cool things I only noticed on reread” thread on the Gunnerkrigg forums for tons of examples.

      • Cat says:

        Yes, that is an excellent point! Another comment above mentions the lack of re-readability of GKC but I really must disagree. I have re-read the archives in their entirety a few times, and certain favourite chapters a few times a year. I always notice new things, from small details to facial expressions, to major “OMG this foreshadows that cool thing that happens 10 chapters down the road!” moments.

  27. Twist says:

    Thank you for this. If the real benefit of this contest is good comics getting more exposure, this post could do even more than GKC winning.

  28. Max says:

    I must say, GC is a fantastic comic, and I’m glad to see it make it this far. However, when paired up against GC, it just doesn’t stand a chance. I certainly enjoy GC, but GC just blows GC out of the water. I have voted for both GC and GC up until now, but in a contest between GC and GC, GC clearly takes the cake. Go GC!

  29. Ebi says:

    Am I the only one here who is annoyed by all the generalizing comments on here? “GC is CLEARLY the better comic, the art for Globlins just sucks!” “Goblins is much better, GC is just Harry Potter!” (not quoting anyone specifically)
    If both comics have made it this far then they clearly have something going for them. It saddens me that some people cant cheer for their favorite without bitching about the opponent.

    I for one found both comics through this contest. I find them both to be very engaging and have put them on my “to follow” list. Choosing which to vote for is downright painful.

    Anyway, that is my two cents. Make what you will of it but I’m really just tired of all the hate. (remind me again why I hang out on the internet?)

    • nona says:

      Yes, thank you! Reading some of these rants is downright painful…

      (also, yes, the internet e_e)

  30. Michael7050 says:

    Oh wow, since when did this contest get so negative?

    I thought the whole point of this was highlight webcomics, and help people see new comics to read (like I did), but now it’s just all depressing!

    Nearly all of the comments I just read were about slanging off the other comic – and by ‘Other Comic’ I mean Goblins, since NO ONE here is slanging off GKC.

    Seriously, what is with you guys to inspire such levels of hate?

    “Goblins is a comic about lumpy turd-people filled with raspberry jam, where the author thinks its alright to go on pages-long tangents about game mechanics and stupid pointless ‘backstory’ – Are you kidding me? I don’t know what comic your reading, but you obviously haven’t actually READ goblins or you would know that this statement is nowhere near the truth.

    Personally, I think it reflects quite well on the Goblins Fandom that GKC hasn’t been attacked incessently on IT”S artwork – which, BTW, is way worse than Goblins.

    And yet, I don’t really care about GKC’s artwork, I think every webcomic has it’s own style, and I like each one for that.

    So get a life you trolls, and learn to have a little more tolerance. Try reading something WITHOUT looking for little flaw, and try to take things in it’s context. Evil characters do EVIL things, alright? Thats what makes them EVIL!

    Whew. Rant over,I hope you guys can make sense of that.

    • Moose says:

      I’m not sure you’re helping our case Michael :P GC’s art isn’t any worse than or better than Goblins, it’s just different. Thunt tends to detail the hell out of everything in his line drawing stage. GC’s author on the other hand (from what I’ve seen) seems to use simpler art, with better use hatching and crosshatching, he also seems much more adept than Thunt at using some of the texture options in his photo editor. Where Thunt will manually draw the texture he wants in the line phase, and expands on it in the detailing part of the coloring stage… but he seems to have more trouble with actual textures because they just aren’t something he uses. Both are good in their own ways, although I’m more impressed by Thunt’s line art and generally consistent style of line drawing.

      (and just after I got done telling someone how proud I was to be a part of a community that doesn’t generally resort to attacks on others.

  31. MechaGai says:

    And yet you felt the need to point out your opinion that GC’s art is worse than Goblins? Nice way to make your argument invalid.

    Both comics are good for their target audience. If you like one, you vote for one. If you like both, you vote for the one you like more. If you can’t decide, then don’t vote. It’s that simple.

  32. BurningBees says:

    Even though GkC is a pretty good comic, I didn’t feel as attached to the characters as I did with goblins. I also don’t like the main character very much (the only character I really liked was Coyote and maybe the red eyed girl), while I have liked several main characters from goblins. I also think that Thunt has improved a lot over the years he has made from his comic.

  33. techloveartist says:

    Honestly, this contest has just made it worse for just the fans. Not even the authors don’t care as much as we do. And besides, this is done via polling which is more for fun.

    They are all different and they all have their charms. They also target different people and what not.

    • techloveartist says:

      Not even the authors care as much as we do.

      • Moose says:

        Very true, you should have heard Thunt on the live feed earlier tonight. He said he’d be perfectly happy as long as goblins stayed at atleast 45% of the vote.

    • techloveartist says:

      Aka, let’s all vote for our guts.

  34. Annoyed and Sleepy says:

    Are you people serious.

    I like both comics, but I voted Goblins. I’m not going into why, since both are great comics, but this is all a matter of opinion. A matter opinion about COMICS ON THE INTERNET. Half of these comments are practically assaults on the comic rather than legitimate criticism, and are you REALLY attacking Thunt while clearly not doing your research for more than a few seconds or what a friend told you off hand? Seriously? Or calling GC “Harry Potter with girls” after only reading a couple pages?

    Discussing opinions is fine, but holy crap, lighten up. You guys are all acting like schoolchildren.

  35. Elex says:

    After having read both of the comics for months now, I have to say they are both very good and deserve to get to the final. Goblins is more like an “in your face” type of comic, and Gunnerkrigg is more mysterious and it feels more deep. My vote is for Gunnerkrigg.

  36. Kettle says:

    Ahhh, I love the smell of flame war in the morning. Smells like…you people need to give it a rest and just vote for the comic you like best. Plus, all webcomics have their up- and downsides. For me, it’s artwork in GKC (yes, I don’t like it) and the pace of updates and switching from a story to story, when it comes to Goblins.

  37. Jep says:

    Having read both comics for about two years each at this point, I can honestly say they both have high points.

    On one hand, Goblins is a delightful romp into the whipping boys of most D&D campaigns, slathering itself with a sauce of comedy and drama, of adventure and triumph. Each page of Goblins is crafted out of the mind of a overreaching story that still fails to disappoint. It brings to mind every nostalgic experience that we’ve had as fantasy readers, game players, and various categorized “geeks”. (Please, not meaning to be insulting) Goblins, what it does for me, is gives me a look into another person’s world, their trials and experiences as a player, dungeon master, and artist of words and art. It lets me know I can connect to this person, understand him better then most because we share the same interests.

    On the other, you have Gunnerkrigg Court, which is very much a comic of discovery and knowledge. While it has it’s humor, it’s far more subtle in many cases then Goblins, and certainly more believable of things that could actually happen. What grips one in GKC is not the story, not the art, not the humor, events, or lore, it’s the characters. each of the characters acts and is a believable being, with hopes, dreams, desires, flaws and virtues. We all can relate to a character from GKC, especially those of us who remember our teenage school years clearly, or are still suffering though them.

    Neither comic here is better then the other, neither can claim that they are better then the other. This isn’t so much a glorified popularity contest at this point rather then what it truly is, a showing of hands of which comic touches us more, which one of the two do we connect with, understand, empathize with. For me, the choice is Gunnerkrigg for personal and varied reasons. But for others, many others, it will be Goblins. All I ask, as someone who has followed the ups and downs of both comics for awhile is that you read both and figure out which one resonates with you more.

  38. BrokenMartyr says:

    I’m voting for Goblins.

    Gunnerkrigg Court simply isn’t as physically appealing as Goblins. I had to read it periodically, or else I would seriously just fall asleep. Because of this, I read it in a month, without enjoying it even once, but I just wanted to know what’s so appealing about it. Also, Annie isn’t a very good main character. I think that she would do okay as an recurring character, like Kore from Goblins, but just not the main one.

    Goblins, however, was just far more enjoyable, and I was able to read through it in about two days. I find it a very good concept, having multiple groups of main characters, which is why voting would be a lot harder for me if it was Goblins vs. MSPA.

  39. Ladybug says:

    If only it was possible for a poll about things people on the internet like to be civil.

    I get that some comics just don’t do it for people. In my case, that’s Goblins. Tried. Couldn’t keep interested. Props for the improvement he’s made in art over the years, that takes some doing, but his story and characters from what I saw just aren’t my thing.

    For others, it’s Gunnerkrigg. I’d disagree, but everyone has the right to their opinion, so long as they’re civil about it. I personally am much more invested in Gunnerkrigg’s story and characters, and it’s a lot of fun to click back to the start of the story and see how far things have come in terms of both art and character development.

    I don’t get why people are saying Tom doesn’t care about his fans and that that’s a reason to not vote GKC. He does, he’s just a more private person, which shouldn’t affect how people perceive the quality of his comic. I’m not as familiar with Goblins, so I can’t speak for the things people are saying about Hunt. In both cases, ad hominem attacks have no place here, especially considering they tend to boil down to “Your opinion is different! You are a jerk!”

  40. Kajhera says:

    No idea who to vote for, GKC’s wonderful but I love Goblins enough to eagerly rush to help buy a house and all. I want to donate to GKC too but the little practical part of my brain is telling me to wait til after I actually get a paycheck. (And possibly to find out how much a coyote plushie is going to cost, because that is a something that needs to be bought if affordable, when it comes.) After that I can start being the serious small-donation patron of the arts that lurks in all of us.

    And GKC is my boyfriend’s favorite webcomic of all time so there is that… my loyalties they are torn. Perhaps I should abstain this round.

  41. Dentrala says:

    hi i have opinions and i would like to tell you all why your opinions aren’t as good as my opinions

  42. Subject Delta says:

    Instead of being guilted into voting for anything how about we all just vote for what we actually like


  43. tin and copper make bronze says:

    I would highly recommend that everyone read some Gunnerkrigg Court, if you haven’t, before voting – it’s not terribly long and an incredibly enjoyable read, and you’ve got all weekend to do it! Voting for one comic or the other because you’ve only read one isn’t terribly sporting, now is it?

    • horse says:

      i gave GKC a shot, read a whole chapter. it failed to grab my attention/interest, whereas Goblins had me in 2 strips. but that’s just my experience, and i agree that people should actually give each comic a shot before voting.

      • FuzzyZergling says:

        Same thing happened to me.
        I WANT to like GKC, but I’m just not entertained by it at all. Whereas I religiously check Goblins every update day, because I love it and want to see the new page as soon as possible.

  44. laura_ellyn says:

    went to the Goblins comic page to check it out before voting, and the most recent page has a villain threatening to gang rape a female character after she dies. Pretty much tells me all I need to know. Say what you will about Gunnerkrigg Court, but at least it’s never used rape as a cheap device for laughs or to show how ~evil~ a character is.

    • Ben says:

      Uhm… What? Where are you pulling any of this information from? The only female character in that most recent panel just released that ‘evil character’ from servitude, and the evil character just told it’s previous ‘owner’ that he’ll be waiting in hell. Ya know, cause he’s a DEVIL? And that’s where they come from? I mean I can understand taking things out of context or not getting it, but you didn’t even realize that your so called ‘female character that was threatened to be gang raped’ was a MALE character with almost a completely bare chest. How do you NOT notice that? I realize goblins isn’t for everybody, it’s a very Dungeons and Dragon influenced comic, and as such, a lot of the humor goes to waste, but this comment doesn’t say anything about the comic other than you completely failed at reading AND viewing.

    • horse says:

      umm, no. no, it does not. first off, any reader engaging in any fiction should start at the beginning, not the middle. i mean, if i were to go read the latest strip of GKC and nothing else, and make a judgment based on that, it would obviously be a misinformed judgment. second, the demon specifically states that he is talking to someone who is bald. the one female in that strip is not bald. third, nobody says a thing about rape in that strip.

      it seems that you basically went to the page specifically looking for something bad to say about it, and allowed your negative perception to shape your interpretation of what you saw on the page. which you shouldn’t have even been trying to interpret in the first place, since you haven’t read the hundreds of pages before it.

    • Scarab83 says:

      Gang rape wasn’t mentioned anywhere in Goblins. Stop projecting onto fictional characters.

    • Goblins says:

      Laura_Ellyn, I have to congratulate you. In the almost eight years of drawing this comic, no one has ever even come close to misinterpreting anything in it this badly. “Gang rape”? Really? That’s what you got from that page? “Using rape as a cheap device for laughs”? That’s where your mind went? Have you ever heard of a Rorschach test? Cause what you’re seeing isn’t there and has come from your own mind.

      What’s actually happening in that page, is the female character just freed the demon from magical slavery and now he can return home. The demon, as his final gesture, is threatening his male capture before going back to hell. What you described is… pretty gross, actually.

      • Scarab83 says:

        I’m fairly positive that for all rational people, gang rape never even entered their mind after reading that, Thunt.

    • EdRed says:

      You obviously failed to understand the page in question. Well at least it didn’t stop you from spreading the false information via twitter.

    • S says:

      Of all the idiots in here spreading bullshit either about Goblins or about GKC, you’re the most infuriating. I can’t believe you. You must know by now that the page has nothing to do with rape at all, and that the demon is threatening a man in a yes, violent, but non-rape-related way, and you are still spreading what you KNOW to be lies on your twitter and tumblr. This is how much you hate Goblins, a comic you have never read except for one page that you wanted to dislike so much that you saw gangrape where there was nothing of the sort. Slowclap for you. You are the classiest.

    • NoriMori says:


      Congratulations, Laura, now every Goblins fan knows exactly how much of an idiot you are. I couldn’t have said it better than Thunt: “Wow. Just wow.”

  45. Nimotaa says:

    I gave GC a shot and read 15 chapters. It’s a good webcomic, but I think goblins is much better.

  46. joeks says:

    these comments saying judging the art is purely a matter of opinion are hilarious. like, theres stylization, and then theres just not drawing anatomy correctly consistently. the difference is that the former is a matter of choice, whereas hunt is incapable of drawing better. goblins’ art is objectively bad, the only thing that’s subjective is whether you mind.

    • Scarab83 says:

      How’s that trolling working out for you?

      • joeks says:

        pretty good, means i dont have to read hundreds of pages of turd people adventures and dramatic death scenes with a -10 hanging above the persons head

        • Scarab83 says:

          That’s cool. Thankfully, the opinion of internet trolls is worth next to nothing to pretty much everyone. Keep it up, though. I wouldn’t want to take your hobby away from you.

          • joeks says:

            yes, not reading a laughably bad webcomic and making a comment about it constitutes “trolling.” do you also yell troll when septic workers complain about the smell of shit

          • Dusk9 says:

            Well, yes; to most people, vicously criticising something you haven’t actually read does indeed count as ‘trolling’. It’s alright if you don’t get that though – I don’t think anyone was really expecting you to.

  47. joeks says:

    dont have to read the comic to judge the art. ive looked at the first few strips, writing didnt appeal to me, then clicked a few archive links to see if the art got any better like it did with gunnerkrigg, and checked out a couple of the latest pages. theres pretty much no improvement. theres color, but its very simplistic and often clashes. just look at the faces on the most recent page: eyes dont work that way. neither do mouths. maybe hunt is a writing genius, i dont know, but i dont care to read something with such consistently ugly and misshappen people.

    • Dusk9 says:

      ……presumably, you’re a fan of GC, or have at least read it (if not, then why are you even here?). If so, then I’m guessing that you’re comparing the art of both comics in the process of forming your opinions.

      In which case, I have a challenge for you – I want you to look at the most recent page of GC, and tell me that everything you see is perfectly realistic. That every mouth and eye on that page acts exactly as it would do in real life, and that there are absolutly no ‘comic’ elements visible.

      Your arguments are flawed by your preconceptions – you want GC to win, so you are amplifying any preceived errors in Goblins, while simultaneously overlooking similar flaws in GC.
      I have read both comics, and I can say without bias that I prefer the artwork of Goblins. And that is the nature of honest opinions – regardless of how terrible you may think the art is, different people will look at it differently, and will often think of things in a completely different way. Claiming that we are all choosing to ignore the ‘ugly art’, while many above are describing how much we enjoy it, is, quite simply, wrong. And insulting us about it doesn’t magically make you right, or better than us – it just makes you appear close minded and petty.

      I’m not sure why I’m really bothering with this – it’s obvious you aren’t interested in constructive disscussion.
      ……….meh. I’ve typed it, so I might as well post it.

      And I do hope that I am wrong about you. That you’ll actually think about what you’re saying, and try to be more open-minded.

      …..I’m not holding my breath though…………..

      • joeks says:

        you seem like a decent guy so ill lay out why im saying these things.

        no, the art on the most recent page of gunnerkrigg is not absolutely photo perfect- for example, donlan’s eyes (the guy) are obviously not what actual eyes look like. there are indeed comic elements, you’re correct. however, it is much more consistently stylized then the art in goblins. and the key there is stylized: siddell is a really good artist and is CHOOSING to draw those eyes on the character because he wants him to look a certain way. he also clearly understands anatomy very well: look at annie’s pose in panel five. that is very accurate to how a girl would be standing. unfortuantely this isnt a very dynamic page so i cant point out more extreme positions, but going through the story if you look at the way people stand and sit and walk and run, the poses and proportions are pretty close to life. while there are elements that are more comic like, like the way at distance siddell doesnt draw facial features, all the anatomy is really good.

        besides anatomy, siddell is really good at coloring and color choice. ill pick a page to illustrate this, though really anything from the coyote chapter could do: http://www.gunnerkrigg.com/archive_page.php?comicID=486
        look at that color. look at the shading and the texture and composition and the way the light is reflecting on the water. sure there are elements of stylization here, but those help pull the page together and make it look better. the most recent page is not as flashy an example, but there are no clashing, ugly color choices, and the shading on the page is pretty minimalist but effective (like in the rocket in the last panel). compare this with the most recent page in goblins, where the shading is simplistic (no more than two tones), which makes everything look flatter. there are also a bunch of ugly panels, especially the middle bottom one with all the clashing elements. the fire adds to that, as its just three colors applied with a maximum softness brush and with a white haze around it. fire doesnt work that way.

        is there any page of goblins that looks nearly as good as that coyote page? i just spent a while clicking through the archives going back, and they all have the same simplistic shading, wonky anatomy, and blobby faces. ive heard the excuse hunt gives that its simplistic because of time constraints, but given that hunt works on the comic full time for years now and puts out one page a week, while siddell just recently quit to work on his comic full time and was putting out three (and has months of buffer to boot), its not at all unreasonable to compare the two. if hunt really puts in 56 hour weeks like he says, puts out content at a third the rate of siddell, and it looks much worse, theres really no way you can say that the art in both comics is in any way comparable. siddell is just a better artist.

        • Dusk9 says:

          Thank you.

          I’m glad that I was wrong, and that you have actually given this some thought. Sorry if I sounded a bit terse, but the sheer weight of blindly negative comments appearing around here is starting to wear me down a bit.

          In answer to your question – this page http://www.goblinscomic.com/10112011/ is one of the better ones in terms of what your talking about, in my opinion.

          As well as this one http://www.goblinscomic.com/11082011-2/ and this one http://www.goblinscomic.com/12062011/
          Oh, and this one too http://www.goblinscomic.com/12202011-2/

          As for your comments about THunt’s work ethic;

          1) Yes, he does work as much as he says he does. I know this because whenever he is working, he has the livestream turned on so he can chat with his fans/friends. Not that I’m ever actually on there – timezone differences make that pretty much impossible.

          2) This also ties into why he doesn’t have a buffer like Siddel does: if he did, he wouldn’t be able to use the livestream without exposing people to lots of spoilers, and he enjoys the company too much to just stop them. Even if it would mean less work for him in the long run.

          3) He updates twice a week. Not once. And if we’re looking at comparing the amounts actually produced during a week, Goblins pages are quite a bit larger than GC pages.

          Finally, in reply to your last sentence;

          It depends on your definition of ‘better’. And personal opinion is going to vary greatly here. For example, I don’t see the speed at which art is created as an indication of the artists skill, as anyone could slap out a painting in five minutes.

          And it would also depend on the preffered styles of both the artist and the viewer – comparing Picasso and Da Vinci, as an example, wouldn’t be easy now, would it? Or Mozart and Eminem? The styles are completely different, and are going to attract support from different people, aren’t they?

          In other words; art is a highly subjective medium, and things aren’t always as clear as ‘this one is the best’.

  48. Ocil says:

    So, I have never read either of these comics, so all I had to go on is the cover pages presented here. And, with that said, Gunnerkrigg Court definitely. I mean Goblins over there has one shitty ass cover going on. So much wasted space. There’s like two characters on a white background with the logo. And then there are some really shittily cropped characters transparently added in below.

    Gunnerkrigg Court’s book cover, on the other hand, isn’t anything amazing, but at least it doesn’t look like complete shit.

    • horse says:

      so what you’re saying is that you just judged two books by their covers and based your vote on which one was prettier? sounds legit.

    • Matt says:

      While I agree with your conclusion that Gunnerkrigg Court is by FAR the better webcomic, you realize that you are LITERALLY judging a book by its cover right? At least give them a read before voting!

      • Ocil says:

        I actually have started reading Goblins since then. I hope GKC at least isn’t unfunny dogshit.

        • Ocil says:

          Besides this is a completely garbage competition anyways who even gives a shit about who votes based on what

        • Matt says:

          The only terrible thing about Gunnerkrigg is Boxbot.

          In all seriousness though, if you’re looking for a funny comic: these are not what you’re looking for. Sure, Gunnerkrigg Court can certainly be funny at times, but it’s not primarily a humour comic; it’s more of a- well… I want to say drama but that’s not it at all. It’s like a really good book, but in webcomic form. Okay, that was a pretty meaningless description. Just… just read GKC. You’ll see (hopefully). But don’t just read the first 2 or 3 chapters. In comparison to the amazing chapters that appear later on, they are terrible.

          • Matt says:

            Thanks for this information about Gunnerkrigg Court, Mr. other person with the same name as me. :) I had made it through about 2 chapters when forming my initial impressions of it. I’ll go back and read a few more sometime soon, and see if my opinion of it improves. :) Although Goblins managed to hook me pretty quickly, and I’m pretty content voting for it and confident that it’s more suited to my personal tastes, and will be following it in the future, maybe if I read more of Gunnerkrigg Court I’ll decide to add that to my regular reading list as well. :) I’ve found a lot of good comics through this tourney; happy to add another one to the list if I decide I like Gunnerkrigg that much after all. :)

          • Matt says:

            To ye who has my name, but in red: (lol)
            It’s nice too see that not everyone here is unwilling to give things a chance, instead taking their impressions from others’.
            Here’s basically how my opinion on Gunnerkigg changes over the course of my read through:
            Chapters 1 – 5: meh. It’s good enough that I’ll keep reading because it shows some promise, but I really hope the whole thing isn’t like this
            Chapters 6 – 13: Okay, this is definitely improving. So far it seems a bit little over-hyped, but it’s pretty good. Going to bookmark this.
            Chapters 14 – 19: Now I see what all the fuss is about. This just keeps getting better!
            Chapters 20 – 30: BEST. COMIC. EVER.
            Chapter 31: Welp, this certainly explains some things. Going to have to re-read everything now!
            Chapter 32 – present: Yep, still awesome.

  49. biba says:

    lol at all these neckbeards trying to convince us goblins isn’t shit

    • Coming from an anonymous poster, that means so much. The only thing that this competition is showing me is that GKC readers can be real assholes. (No offense to you GKC readers who aren’t assholes, but some you might consider peers like the above really speak poorly for your camp.)

      • MechaGai says:

        You’re allowing loud minority to influence your thought on what is a largely quiet, nice group? You know how easily manipulated you seem right now?

    • Neouni says:

      Goblins is nice if you like ‘comic’ read as humor.
      A lot of people seem to find webcomics with a large dose of it fun to read.
      And I’m one of them.

      If I wanted a story I read a good Terry Pratchett Discworld book (and I recommended everyone to try them !)

      Entertainment for me needs a bigger slice of comedy, that’s why gunnerkrigg isn’t for me.

      And that constant bashing of goblins will shame gunnerkrigg readers to be one of them.
      Are you trolls claiming to be sports fans while actually being hooligans too ?

  50. BrokenMartyr says:

    Please, can anyone explain to me why GKC is so good? I read through the whole thing and I didn’t find anything that good about it.

  51. Cheesestache says:

    All these goblin fans sounds like mspa fans, same defense, same damn excuses. GCK dont need excuses. Voting for the krigggers, just cuz I like it.

    • Moose says:

      Excuses? Where? A number of us have explained why we prefer Goblins over GC for objective reasons, and have responded politely (mostly) to individuals who felt the need to insult the comic, the writer, and posters in these comments. I thought MSPA’s defense was about it being awesome once you had read a thousand or so pages of it, and that there’s a lot of it you can read, but I’m not an MSPA fan so I can’t speak for them. For Goblins the strongest points are probably the well thought out plot with an extremely detailed backstory on a wide range of elements within the comic. Artistically the comic’s strong points are perspective and detailed line drawing. GC has strengths of its own, but I prefer Goblins in terms of art, and I can’t speak to the entirety of its story because I haven’t had the time to read through the whole thing.

  52. nona says:

    At this point I have no idea who is a genuine GKC fan disliking Goblins, and who is just a Goblin-hater…

    These people make the GKC-fandom look so horrible and arrogant, I don’t even know what to say…

    I never intended to read Goblins because it’s just not my cup of tea, but I am seriously reconsidering this now. The author seems like a very nice person, I think I’ll give it a shot.

    • biba says:

      nona noooooo

      • nona says:

        well, what did you think would come out of all this onesided bashing? i am ashamed to be a GKC-fan on this page right now…

        • biba says:

          nona pls

          r u trollan

        • techloveartist says:

          You have more sense than many of the fans here. This contest is just screwing all of us up in a sense.

          I’ll eventually join you. I’ll be reading GK, Goblins and OOTS at some point.

    • Moose says:

      We’d be happy to have you nona! Be sure to check out the forum, chat, and especially the live broadcasts on ustream if you’re interested in the Goblins’ community.

    • Spelaeus says:

      That’s not really quite fair. I’ve seen maybe two or three trolls on this page, that’s really not representative of an entire fan-base. And it’s certainly not fair to hold the comic itself accountable for a few vocal jerks.

      For the record, I do like Goblins. It’s a good comic, and it is on my list of comics that I keep up to date with. And I tend to be picky about that sort of thing. But, I’m voting for Gunnerkrigg because it is quite honestly one of the best webcomics that I have encountered. That does not make Goblins bad by any means, though.

      • nona says:

        I know, I know, and these few trolls give a bitter taste to this otherwise fun voting-thing. But I am a loyal GKC-fan, and nothing can shake my faith in this comic. It just makes me sad that these trolls will probably drive away potential GKC-readers :(

    • goblins fan says:

      Give it a wurl through the first book, see if there is anything in it to suit your fancy. if not, you gave it a fair go, and that is far better than others.

  53. Matt says:

    I GOT OPPINIONS. And now, you’re gonna [s]hear[/s] read about ’em!

    Goblins is about action, adventure, and also seems to have a good amount of nightmare fuel (help I am turning into tvtropes). Goblins is a predicatable (or maybe formulaic would be a more approriate word than predicatable) comic that aims to appeal to a specific group of people, and seems to do it quite well, though I myself don’t really enjoy it all that much because it’s not my preferred kind of comic.

    Gunnerkrigg is about story and characters. There’s a small ammount of action, and there is humour, but the comic is not about that. It’s a story that encourages theories and more realistic characters (especially those OTHER than the main character- it’s not just Antimony who gets all the development), and it executes this brilliantly. Once you look past the first 2 or 3 chapters, (which, in my oppinion, are not that great), the comic really starts to improve. By chapter 9, the comic is really starting to stand out, and by the time you get into the 20s chapters, you REALLY see the brilliance behind the comic.

    I suspect that Gunnerkrigg will end up winning because it appeals to a wider audience.

    Goblins is not a bad comic, but I find it fairly transparent. I can definitely see how may people would find it entertaining, but I voted for Gunnerkrigg because it is truely a gem. There are many comics like Goblins, but very very few like Gunnerkrigg that have any comparable level of quality.

    • Matt says:

      Thanks again for the comparative review, Matt! My own tastes run more towards Goblins, but as I said, I’ll give Gunnerkrigg Court another shot.

      Have you read Unsounded? Based on what you say you like about Gunnerkrigg, I suspect you might like my favorite comic as well. You should check it out! :)

      • Matt says:

        No, I haven’t read Unsounded, or even heard about since a couple days ago. I’ll give it a read, or at the least a partial read, though somtime in the next few days. You can never have too may webcomics!

  54. Krigger says:

    Fellow kriggers, before the network, there were comics. Before contests, there were polls. Our voting stopped the PA. But before that, we held the line. Our voting stopped the QC. But before that, we held the line. Our voting stopped the MSPA. But before that, we held the line. Our voting will stop Goblins, my friends.

    In the battle today. We. Will hold. The Line!

  55. DF44 says:

    Could the people attacking Goblins give it a break? it’s a nice comic with a unique art style, as is GKC. I’m pledging allegiance to GKC, but it gives us a bad rep when you attack Goblins like this…

    • horse says:

      i’d just like to point out that i haven’t seen a single attack on GKC, whereas the attacks on Goblins have been non-stop. if nothing else, that’s a moral victory.

      • Nusa says:

        I think you just said that Goblin fans are better people than GKC fans, so if you need a moral victory…

        Anyone attacking ANY comic damages the entire industry, including whatever comics you claim to support. Just let people can make up their own minds, there’s no need that they agree with anyone else.

  56. Granite says:

    I’ve read both for a while. Whenever this is decided, I feel that it will go to a worthy comic. Personally, though? I really, really like Goblins. They are both great, but I love the questions that Thunt raises about speciesism, tradition and morality with Goblins.

  57. Adam says:

    Odd how the voting suddenly turned in GCK’s favour once Thunt was accused of using rape for cheap laughs and a reactionary misandrist told the world how horrible a person Thunt was and began rallying people to vote against him.

    This was a fun little contest until some little people decided to make it personal.

    • biba says:

      abloobloobloo misandryyyy

      p.s. all this awful artist’s women are drawn like blow-up dolls

    • Anonymous says:

      GKC had the lead in the beginning as well. We held our own against Homestuck, I’m sure we would’ve been in the lead at some point (whether we win or not) without misandrists hating on Goblins. D:

      • Adam says:

        You may very well be right. Sadly, we’ll never know

        • Anonymous says:

          But we DO know! Gunnerkrigg won against many well-known and popular comics, and was doing quite well before that comment. You surely can’t think it’s only gotten votes since then because one person accused Goblins of being misogynist.

      • Adam says:

        You may be right. Sadly, we’ll now never know

    • someone says:

      This little controversy made me realize that if you read the page without context, you might indeed think the threat is against Kin (if you miss the “bald turd” insult or don’t pay too much attention to the fact Kin isn’t bald). It can seem like all the (near-)humans are together as an adventuring party, including Alt-Max, and that the demon’s reaction to Kin’s banishment is one of bravado rather than one of liberation.

      When you start by reading the previous few pages, the confusion isn’t possible; but if you see it as a standalone, without context, then it’s easy to interpret it differently.

      • horse says:

        which is precisely why a reader should *not* be trying to interpret a story by reading only the current end of it.

    • GreenIntern says:

      Both Goblins and GKC are drawn by men. I have no idea why you’re crying misandry.

      The woman who complained has apparently had personal trauma from rape. I didn’t read any implication of rape in the comic page in question, but that doesn’t really matter. Thunt handled the situation like a petulant child, without introspection or evaluation.

      • GreenIntern says:

        I should elaborate. If this was “misandry,” then wouldn’t we see hostility against GKC and Tom Siddell as well?

        • horse says:

          i’m not saying it’s misandry, just taking a stab at clarifying why some people are defining it as such. i agree with your assertion that laura_ellyn is not a misandrist. in any case, the issue is done and gone, and Thunt has respectfully asked on his facebook page that everybody drop it and leave her alone. not really the action of a petulant child, imo.

          • Niton says:

            However, taking the issue and putting it on the front page of your website, which you’re both expecting people to and hoping for people to read, is about as childish as you could possibly get.

            There’s lots of right ways to handle a PR disaster – siccing your fans on people, “I won’t name names” style, is not one of them.

      • horse says:

        misandry is hatred of men. people are using the term to describe laura_ellyn’s actions because she’s being read as a man-hater. i’m not saying she’s a man-hater, just saying that’s what people mean when they claim her actions to be misandry.

        GreenIntern, your interpretation of the situation is just another example of misinterpretation in the same way that laura_ellyn misinterpreted that strip. she went there looking for something to disagree with, projected her own problems onto it, found something to complain about, and proceeded to do so, just as you’re doing with your interpretation of Thunt’s response to her. haters gonna hate.

        • NunswGuns says:

          I don’t know who larua_ellyn is, but there’s no “looking” necessary. The line from the demon does sound a lot like a rape threat to me. Yes, I can see that it was being spoken towards the bald guy, and Thunt has made it very clear he didn’t intend for it to sound like a rape threat, but you know what? Intentions don’t matter. It’s a poorly-written line and it’s open to the subconscious interpretations of the reader.

          And you know what? You read a heck of a lot like a misogynist right now. Dismissing laura_ellyn’s perspective as a woman and a rape survivor is a buttload more insulting than anything she’s said about Goblins. Her point of view has been shaped by both things, and to her it read as a rape threat. It also sounded a lot like a rape threat to me as well, maybe because we’re both women and both have a 1 in 4 chance of being sexually-assaulted?

          Just because she first jumped to “rape” doesn’t mean she was looking for it. It’s a badly-written sentence because it leaves that ambiguity there.

          It’s also grossly unprofessional for Thunt to post his entire exchange with laura_ellyn on his website. It was also insulting to dismiss all of her concerns, since she has directly experienced what she interpreted in the comic.

          And another thing: it’s completely and totally sickening that Thunt would repost her admission to being a rape survivor. I’m going to take a very small logical leap and assume he didn’t ask her before he reposted that. She told Thunt when she thought it was a fairly intimate exchange on her site. Instead of a few people she knows seeing the exchange, millions of strangers will see Thunt’s call-out post, and tell her she deserved to be raped and all sorts of other disgusting things because she said a few bad words about a webcomic.

          • biba says:

            you rock <3

          • SharesLoot says:

            There’s a reason why a webcomic with D&D references still has a lot of female fans: It’s good. It works on many levels. Yes, the women depicted are often “deformed” to suit adolescent boys’ tastes, but this is a fantasy setting, and don’t tell me that this isn’t the norm for fantasy fiction, movies, games and comics. About the page: Whether rape is threatened or not, the threat is in no way directed towards a girl. Taking a few lines out of context can be used to make any religion, political party, or organization look like they should be banned. Wars have been fought by fanatics misunderstanding or twisting a few lines to fit their view of the world. That’s what’s happening here. As a female Goblins fan, I am horrified to see such an unfair and fanatic campaign by another woman against my favorite author who is a really great guy. Stop this madness now, you are hurting people, their feelings and reputation just because you can. Please!

          • NunswGuns says:

            This is to SharesLoot, something is weird with the formatting on this blog and the reply button is unreachable below the margins of the post.

            I would never try to pretend that the fantasy genre isn’t polluted by unrealistic and demeaning portrayals of women. It’s pervasive and all-consuming. I have no idea why you think this makes it excusable. I’m also not sure how that’s relevant to anything I’ve said, but if you really want me to talk about that topic I’ll oblige: just because it’s there doesn’t mean it should always be that way. Genre fiction has always been overwhelmingly white and male-dominated, but if niche genres want to survive, they need new readers and writers. This means making fantasy/sci-fi/whatever something that would interest more women and other minorities.

            Those lines are not out of context and I never said they were directed at the snake-woman character. In fact, I already pointed out they were directed at the bald guy (Minmaximus?) That doesn’t mean it doesn’t sound like a rape threat. Men can get raped, after all.

            And what the hell is this about doing this because “I can” and being “a fantatic”? I didn’t really care that much about Goblins before I saw Thunt’s newest news post today. I even wished him well and hoped he was enjoying himself yesterday. I won’t stop because I think that Thunt’s behavior was childish and stupid. He had no right to repost a woman’s admission to being raped. A limp-wristed effort to tell his fans not to reply to posts (at the very end of his long, LONG reply to a woman who can’t defend herself because he’s moved the game to his own playground, where no comments can be made) is despicable.

            And shove off for scolding me like I’m five. I don’t think this is unfair “campaign”. I’m not in the throes of madness, either. Going around accusing a woman of being crazy and irrational for speaking her mind about the immature and downright cruel behavior of a grown man is an ancient tactic to discredit women and silence them. I’m an adult and I have a right to speak my mind.

            I think Thunt’s repost of his discussion with laura_ellyn was childish and even downright cruel. I think the willingness of many Goblins fans to dismiss her concerns or accuse her of lying about being raped is wildly offensive and misogynistic. I also think Thunt is doing a terrible job of policing his own fans, but I guess if he really cared about that he wouldn’t have but their entire conversation on his newspost with a sarcastic, dismissive commentary that she couldn’t reply to.

          • CP says:

            Sorry, but being a rape survivor doesn’t give you a free pass to insult other people for saying completely innocent things. Especially not when those insults are directly damaging to your livelihood. Tarol Hunt didn’t say anything in public that she didn’t say in public, and he went out of his way to avoid mentioning her name. She has done vastly more damage to him than he ever did to her, and she did it intentionally.

          • NunswGuns says:

            I never said that being a rape survivor gives someone a free pass to be insulting. If she was insulting then so be it, but saying bad words doesn’t destroy a legitimate complaint. It certainly makes it harder to swallow, but it’s not really the burden of the injured party to be gentile (I mean in general, btw, not necessarily in this case.)

            I wouldn’t say Thunt tried very hard to conceal her identity. He made it pretty clear that he was arguing with someone in these comments. I had no idea who she was until I ctrl+f’d “rape” on this page. Then, presto, there was someone giving out her full name in the comments.

            Any opinion I have of Thunt’s innocence was pretty thoroughly destroyed when he posted a three page rant on the front page of his website. However public the comments are on this page, most people don’t read them. How many people ready Thunt’s news page? I’d bed it’s at least 100 times the number, especially since he’s been promoting this contest on it constantly for the past month.

            No matter what Thunt thinks of fans, he had to realize someone would come into these comments and harass laura_ellyn even after the two of them considered the argument dead. And for every one person who did that there’d be a dozen anonymous users who had no qualms with harassing her offsite.

            That news rant is low and petty. If Thunt had never posted I, I certainly wouldn’t know about the argument he had with her. I know plenty of other people are in the same boat. It was an attention-grabber and it was placed somewhere where no one could challenge him.

          • someone says:

            SharesLoot: “About the page: Whether rape is threatened or not, the threat is in no way directed towards a girl.”
            Yeah, because that makes it better if rape threats are directed towards boys.

  58. TB says:

    A lot of people are using the argument “the author of GKC quit his day job”. You know the artist of Goblins doesn’t have a day job besides his comic either, right? Beyond the authors’ personal lives, both comics are good, but the drama that’s sprung up is awful. Knee-jerk accusations followed by lots of whining and ultimately no one is happy. Good job, everyone.

    • SharesLoot says:

      I’m happy. Two good comics are in the finals. 90% of the people here don’t like trolls. I feel safe as part of this majority. All’s well… or did I miss something? ;-)

    • someone says:

      The thing is that Thunt has done that for a while, so we already know (and mostly, he already knows) that it’s working out okay for him.

      Tom, however, just made the jump and at the moment it’s still a big gamble. It might work out, and I certainly hope so! But it might not.

  59. facebook_. says:

    All I can really do here is voice my support for Goblins. I read both comics, I look forward to the Goblins updates more. Nothing, especially not poorly justified criticisms from strangers of varying degrees of politeness, is going to change that.

    • CheeseToastofDeath says:

      Oops, apparently trying to sign in with Facebook was a mistake here. My point still stands.

  60. Ed says:

    As a Goblins fan, whoever’s sending disgusting and abusive messages to that girl, you’re a disgrace to the species and you should be ashamed of yourselves. On the other hand, she is an utter idiot with an astonishingly poor grasp of reading comprehension. I, like everyone else with a conscience, am very sorry for what she’s apparently been put through; you’d be a pretty heartless bastard not to be. But that really doesn’t excuse her actions, nor those of what I’m very thankful appears to be a minority of GKC fans. Seriously, accusing a guy of essentially (not literally, but close enough) being a rape fanboy without the slightest justification is NOT cool. Nonetheless, sending her hate mail far worse than anything she actually complained about in the first place is just about the thickest and most offensive thing you could possibly do. She’s very wrong, very rude and very arrogant, but if you can’t tell her that without resorting to rape abuse, then fuck off and die.

  61. horse says:

    to me, what makes Goblins great is all about the cool things and characters that exist in this world that Thunt has created. for example, who ever thought of a dungeon crawl where PCs race against alternate-reality versions of themselves? i wanna play that dungeon crawl! it sounds awesome!

  62. Shadowphile says:

    I’ve been a fan of Goblins since my daughter introduced me to it a year or so ago. I’ve been checking out the competition in each rounds to give them a fair chance. The only place that I was torn was Goblins vs Looking for Group. This match up is going, hands down in my opinion, to Goblins. I’m following GKC now (not as avidly as Goblins, which is telling) as well as OoTS. Obviously my taste runs to fantasy over techno-fantasy. I will say one thing negative about GKC; I’m not a fan of the art style. I will not say the art is terrible because it is not. It’s just not to my taste.

    The next negative things I am going to say are to the fans of both Goblins and GKC: respect the opinion of others and stop being such judgmental a$$hats. Both sides are flinging insults. Don’t use your loyalty to an online comic to justify being a douche bag.

    I’m fully expecting a few insults because I’m telling people to grow up and I suspect they will be based on the ‘phile’ portion of my handle. It will only go to prove my point.

    • Omen says:

      I think your comments are bang on. It’s sad that what should be a showing of appreciation for an underappreciated art medium has turned into such a childish arguement. People seemed to have missed the point that tearing down someone else’s artwork does not make them or the art work they prefer any better. Slinging insults back and forth only succeeds in making fans of *Insert favourite comic title* seem like a bunch of rabid fanatics.

  63. monkmunk says:

    Winning this contest isn’t going to help Tom. Increasing the reader base will help Tom. The vitriol some people are directing towards Goblins can do nothing but turn potential readers off the comic, and that’s doing everyone a disservice.

    p.s. Gunnerkrigg comic is best comic.

  64. The Bear says:

    This just makes me think of the t-shirt Totalbiscuit has now on sale. “Fanbois must die”. Yeah, I agree. They must be exterminated. So instead of simply voting for what all of you like, you all, on both sides of the fence, turn it into a pissing contest on kindergarten level. Well done.

    And then there’s of course that retarded woman who screamed that Goblins supports rape, but only proved that she has some serious mental and intellectual problems and an utter inability to frigging read.

    I hate people. I really do.

  65. Richard says:

    I’m a big fan of OOTS, Homestuck, Erfworld and a few other comics that fell in battle.
    But even loving them, I would vote for Goblins.
    Everything started with humor and D&D jokes.
    Then it turned into an epic story, who didn’t went crazy with this:
    Also, it’s so unpredictable, Tarol is an awesome story teller.

    P.S: The final match is GKC x Goblins and not OOTS x Homestuck because Giant and Hussie do not care about this competition. :]

  66. randint says:

    so i went to this gunnerkrigg court comics, and on the very first page is a man showing a girl how to LAUNCH MISSILES into AMERICAN BUILDINGS to perform TERRORIST ATTACKS on innocent US civilians.
    holy crap, this is disguisting, and i don’t see how this terrorist-supporting comics is winning against goblins! This comics thinks its ok to teach innocent young girls to blow up buildings!
    What’s worse off is that moments before killing countless innocent civilians, the two characters share a hearty joke, and laugh it off.

    No one should support this travesty of comics that ENDORSES TERRORIST ACTIVIIES!

    • voice of reason question mark says:

      No… no just don’t propagate that that stuff. this is why forums on the internet are to be avoided. just vote and move on.

    • horse says:

      i get the joke, but will everybody? prepare to be trolled haha

      • Mia says:

        I don’t get the joke. Is it a parody or a meme, or something like that?

        • horse says:

          it’s a parody of laura_ellyn’s comment, which grossly misinterpreted the latest Goblins strip.

  67. licence007 says:

    Allegations against Thunt were absolutely ridiculous and I feel that the hatred from a minority of the opposing comic ‘fans’ (not just in this round) towards Goblins has been quite unfortunate. I don’t see why people feel the need to give their opinions in ways that can be construed as abusive or derogatory towards someone else’s work.

    Thankfully the majority of people have been able to have sensible debate. Also, regarding that woman making the rape claims against Goblins. She made a mistake, yes she should apologise, but it appears she lives in a little bubble of her own creation, so let’s all just draw a line under it and may the best comic win!

  68. Chain Song says:

    Risin’ up, back on the street

  69. Eric says:

    So, this is what Gunnerkrigg Court fans resort to? Accusing Goblins of making rape jokes?

    That is low – really low.

    What kind of fan does this? And, no, I don’t buy this ‘rape victim’ excuse. I know real ‘rape victims’ in life, and they know very well the difference between reality and fantasy.

    Even if they happen to read Goblins, misinterpret it so grossly and entirely by only reading one page, they would not start throwing accusations like this. This is a comics, and comparing this to real life actually diminishes the severity of it in reality.

    So, no I’m not buying her story – especially since she now knows it wasn’t – she is not caring. I think this was all about trying to get more votes for GC. If you read more of her posts, she goes on to say how nice Thunt was, yet insist that he should burn his work…. that is just plain disguising.

    • TakeAMomentToThinkThisThrough says:

      Please, this is not what Gunnerkrigg Court fans resort to, but what A really disturbed (by what she interpreted into what she saw) person resorts to. Stop the flaming and the generalization. NO webcomic needs this mud war. Vote for which ever comic you like and feel free to tell other people why you like it. If you don’t have something nice to say, don’t say anything at all. Thank you.

    • mrpibbleton says:

      Finally someone to with the moral courage to stand up to the so called “victims” of sexual assault! It’s a good thing you’re familiar with everyone’s reactions to a traumatic experience and are intimately aware of just how wide they can range so you can successfully debunk a person’s claims for not liking a comic you enjoy.

      • licence007 says:

        Don’t add to the flames dude, just leave it be.

      • Moose says:

        It isn’t as if she threatened his sole source of income or anything right?
        I’m sickened by what some people have apparently sent her, but that can’t be blamed on Thunt, because that was already happening as a result of her post in here. It’s terrible, but you can’t blame the person who didn’t initiate the attack for the actions of fans who were going against his requests for her to be left alone. I suspect that things are only going to get worse in the near term in light of something mentioned in a tweet to thunt: https://twitter.com/#!/UllerRM/status/188788177836838914 and I sincerely hope she is able to weather the storm. Best of luck to her, and to hell with anyone who is sending her those appalling messages, they should be ashamed of themselves. But you can’t blame Thunt for responding to an attack on his source of income.

    • NunswGuns says:

      You’re a disgusting piece of work and you have no right to question a rape survivor’s personal experience. You and people like you are the reason why rape victims don’t come forward with their stories. You eagerness to doubt their word just because she doesn’t like a freaking webcomic is deplorable. No one “fakes” a rape so a webcomic they like can win an Amazon giftcard. I hope you look back on this comment tomorrow and feel a deep and abiding shame.

    • Chelsie Sutherland says:

      It’s not an accusation. Goblins has used rape before: http://www.goblinscomic.com/03022010/ http://www.goblinscomic.com/03032010/

      In fact, Kin’s introduction and history is basically rape and torture. When the OP saw it as triggering for rape and misogyny, it’s not exactly untrue considering the female characters in the comic.

      I don’t care whether or not you think her being a rape victim is an excuse. That doesn’t give anyone the right to send the sort of anonymous messages and emails (many of which threatening to rape her) that she’s been getting.

      Not only that, but Thunt posted a mostly-private exchange between the himself and the OP in his Newspage. A page he has complete control over, with no comments section, so that she can’t even begin to defend herself. That fact he did that, and his commentary? It’s disgusting, childish, neckbeardish, and completely turned me off of the comic and anything that the creators will be doing in the future.

  70. Chain Song says:


  71. joeks says:

    holy shit why the hell would you publish comment section drama on the front page of your website, where the other person has no way to respond and where youre essentially lynching your fans on them?? do you think that a throwaway line at the end where you say “oh by the way dont harass her” is going to stop idiots when the rest of your post is making her out as a villian? what the fuck is wrong with you hunt, why would you publish that and not respond to it privately, especially when the woman is a rape survivor getting rape threats? is your fucking ego that fragile that you need your fans to give you asspats and hugs over some fucking comment on a poll? jesus christ grow up you worthless trash, before this i thought you just had a shitty comic. turns out youre a shitty person too!

    • mrpibbleton says:

      Hey you don’t talk to Thunt like that, he’s an incredibly talented writer and artist who does incredible work like this. http://www.goblinscomic.com/03032010/ HOW DARE YOU ACCUSE HIM OF ANY IMPROPRIETY! I SAY UNTO YOU GOOD DAY SIR!

      • biba says:

        god, if you can’t see how totally original and innovative using the rape of a woman to establish the evilness of villainous men and goodness of heroic men, then i don’t know what to tell you! and that dialog is so subtle and hair-raising, if you can’t appreciate it you should really just reevaluate your entire life.

        • horse says:

          originality died with Shakespeare, and i really see no point in attacking an author’s ‘failure’ to use a nonexistent concept. but if we really want to have that conversation, i can gladly point out the similarities between GKC and Harry Potter.

          • biba says:

            lol i see you missed the point. that (misogynistic) device has been in play since before shakespeare’s time, and it’s all about making a woman’s trauma about the men in the picture. it’s really no surprise that it shows up in goblins, considering that hunt also draws every female character with the same body and pouty, perpetually-open lips.

            lol the similarities that occur bc gkc and harry potter both take place in schools in the uk, which typically have house systems? those ones? HOLY SHIT that is totally equivalent to hunt’s lazy story-telling, you got me there!!

      • horse says:

        yeah, throwing a rapist through a window is such a dastardly deed, how dare the hero attack a villain…

        • Pinstripe Hourglass says:

          I don’t think you understand that complaint. No, Thunt is not showing rape as positive in that seen. However, he is using an ancient and tired literary device which makes a woman’s trauma all about a man in order to establish his villainy in the laziest way possible.

          • Ouch says:

            replying to you because for some reason I can’t reply to Biba

            “perpetually-open lips”

            Because we all know a woman’s lips should be perpetually closed, am I right? Eh? Eh?

          • biba says:


            g2b neckbeard, you’re not clever

          • CP says:

            Seriously? Because the guy who died in that scene is definitely way more important to the narrative than the woman who became a recurring character for years. Obviously it’s just lazy writing to have a major character have to learn to heal from torture over the course of dozens of scenes. Nothing ambitious or risky or compelling about that at all.

      • SharesLoot says:

        Goblinslayer is already depicted as a truly horrible villain before that page you posted. He tortured countless creatures just because they were not of the same race as him. He is a true monster. Beginning with the page you sarcastically quote, he finally gets his payback and is killed.. but you twist the page into the opposite direction and pretend GS is depicted as positive (or even human). In this part of the book, Minmax, the most dense character of the comic, begins to realize that humans are not superior to all other races in that world and not just there to be killed. It is the beginning of a love story. Yes, it’s graphic, and the page you linked is one of those the disclaimer warns about (extreme violence) – though mainly of the verbal kind. I’m okay with it, because the message is clear if you don’t rip it out of context. I am a christian, so I know what taking words out of context can do (which goes both ways). I think I’m done here, I don’t want to get so mad that I write something I will regret later.

        • someone says:

          You completely misread what the complaint was about making GS “positive or even human”. It’s about the gratuitous use of rape as a backstory.

    • Scarab83 says:

      Keep up the good work, joeks. One of these days you might even get benefits or something from your hard work trolling.

    • horse says:

      once again… haters gonna hate

    • No one says:

      You mean….kind of like how she was posting in her personal blog where the other person couldn’t respond and then link tweeting it…well before Goblin’s creator even got involved?

      This woman is not a villain. She made a mistake and she was in the wrong. Instead of apologising for her knee-jerk reaction without looking at context, she used her trauma as an excuse and then blamed Thunt for her reaction. As far as his rabid “fans” go, he’s disowned and repudiated anyone that sinks to the level of threatening Ms. Ellyn. He’s stated, in no uncertain terms, in every forum he has a presence in, to leave her alone. That is not an “oh by the way.”

      This contest was never about ego. This was a friendly contest to widen the readership of some webcomics and perhaps show some cross comic-genre love. Ms. Ellyn took that spirit and used it to wage a personal war on a webcomic based on a misunderstanding and a blatant disregard and willful negligence to adjust her ignorance.

  72. trying to distract you from the possible flame war says:

    So, what are your favourite strips from GC and G?

    for me?
    http://www.goblinscomic.com/08172006/ (may require a few pages of preread for it to bring the tears)



    From the creator of Goblins:

    – – –

    “cool, so I said I wouldn’t publish any more anonymous asks about this, but I mean, I think it’s worth something that the creator would message me.

    I’m glad that that page was not intended to be a rape joke. I really am.

    I would encourage you to put maybe a bit more thought into your writing? But that’s up to you.

    I’d also like to ask you to please tell your fans to stop messaging me and calling me a bitch, saying they hope I “actually” get raped (I am, in fact, a rape survivor), etc.

    Thanks for your time and good luck (tho I’m still not a fan of your comic, nothing personal).”

    Oooohhhh, I see the problem. I need to be more careful. Of course! Even though she’s the only person (as far as I can tell) who thought that page had anything to do with rape, I need to be much more careful with my writing. There is absolutely no possiblity that she needs to be more careful with her reading and accusations. I have to give her credit though. Not many people can turn blame around like that while simultaneously asking me to do her a favour with the whole ‘get your fans off my back’ thing. That’s like stabbing me, then asking me to wash my splattered blood off of her shirt. I mean, it IS my blood, so I should clean it, right?

    However, I would like to point out that contacting her and calling her names doesn’t help anyone. So please don’t, folks. This’ll be the reason why I’m not posting her name in this blog.

    Anyways, I sent her some more of my thoughts…

    “I have also been telling everyone to read GKC. It’s an amazing comic and I honestly think that I could learn a lot about making comics from it (as well as other comics). I feel no shame in losing the contest to GKC. If you want to keep telling everyone how horrible Goblins is, that’s your right. But please, please stop telling people that I’m a misogynist who takes rape lightly. That is entirely untrue and if you knew me, you’d know how completely untrue it is.”

    How could anyone refuse this request, right? She now knows that I wasn’t refering to rape. She knows that I’m not the misogynistic rape monster that she was painting me up as. How? How could anyone possibly avoid making even the slightest apology?

    “dude, I never said you were a misogynist, I said your comic was misogynist.”

    Oooohhh, THAT’S how. By avoiding the important point entirely and stating your own, imagined innocence through insignificant semantics. Nice one. She continues…

    “Which I mean, is still kind of an assessment I hold to? Striking the rape thing, which I was mistaken about – seriously, let it be known on tumblr and twitter that the writer of Goblins has clarified the “dogpile” thing and I was wrong”

    Hey, what? This is starting to look like an apology! Yes! Could she be working up to a ‘hey, sorry I told as many people as I could lots of horrible, horrible things about you even though I knew exactly nothing about you’? Could this be it?!

    “ you do have a tendency to draw all your female characters with the exact same features and sticking-out boobs, which rubs me the wrong way as an artist and a woman who works primarily in comics. I’m not criticizing you as a person – I don’t know anything about your interactions with the people in your life, etc – I’m criticizing an aspect of your work that I think needs a bit more analysis and improvement. LOTS of comic artists and writers fall back on similar tropes without really thinking about it, and I’d like to challenge you to not do the same. That’s all.”

    Shit. Nevermind. Well the important thing that we all need to learn from this, is that she’s an artist and I need to apologise to her for being unclear about whether or not my rapeless page had rape in it and for drawing such sexist women in my misogynistic comic that she’s never read.

    – – –

    Look, if that comic was misinterpreted, fine, but that doesn’t mean you get to hold it over her head and tell that she, a rape survivor, should really just shut up and stop being so sensitive, especially when people are threatening her.

    You also don’t drag drama right onto the front page of your comic, where first-time viewers will see it. Because, hey, I’ve never read this comic before, and this is a terrible first impression.

    • mrpibbleton says:

      So if you win you’re donating the prize to a battered women’s shelter right?

    • Adam says:

      You know what is a terrible impression? Slandering someone in a public forum and insulting anyone who disagrees with you.

      You know what is an even worse impression? Using a traumatic event as an excuse to be a raging asshole

      • mrpibbleton says:

        Nothing is more traumatic than violation of someone not liking your favorite webcomic, NOTHING.

      • biba says:

        no1curr what someone who seriously uses phrases like “reactionary misandrist” has to say


    • butts says:

      lol he’s acting like such a victim here

      yeah, buddy, who got rape and suicide trolled? it wasn’t you

      • Adam says:

        Wait, he can’t be outraged at her accusations because a bunch of idiots messaged her?

        Yeah, makes sense…

        • mrpibbleton says:

          Well it’s clear through Thunt’s logical de-construction of her argument she needs to calm down and stop being such an emotional woman. Which is precisely why he gave his fans enough info to contact her then told them they shouldn’t. ;)

          • Adam says:

            It must be… interesting in your reality.

          • Assatur says:

            It’ll be Thunt’s fault if the woman didn’t continue to slander him in Twitter and on the blogs. You should read some of it.

            And that was before the post on the Goblin’s website.

            Clearly, the woman is on a path of revenge after losing the argument and refuses to apologize.

            I’ll be infuriated and defensive if someone continues to post insults and rape accusations even after they’re proven wrong.

        • joeks says:

          POP QUIZ: oh no! someone misinterpreted a page of your comic and thinks you’re making a rape joke, but you’re not! what do you do?

          a. respond in the same comments section telling her that no, thats not what you meant at all. when she contacts you later saying shes being harassed, post a comment telling people not to harass her in the same section.

          b. respond in the same comments section telling her that no, thats not what you meant at all, then proceed to publish your private exchange with you where she admits she is a rape victim who is being harassed and use your front page to get your fans to tell you you’re right because your ego just cant take one person calling you a misogynist on the internet

          if you chose B, congratulations! youre a petulant baby too!

          • Adam says:

            Your b. would be more accurate if you pointed out that everyone Thunt posted was published on her blog and twitter feed. There were no “private” exchanges.

            But hey, don’t let reality get in your way.

            I seriously don’t understand how people think it’s alright to sit here and insult and demean someone because they’re not a fan of their published work. I can see people not linking Goblins. It’s not everyone’s cup of tea. But to think that makes it OK to attack the author and insult him on public forums, then belittle him when he stands up for himself is really quite sad.

          • mrpibbleton says:

            Yeah, the objections to Thunt’s handling of criticism and his demanding an apology from a rape victim are based entirely on disliking his webcomic and everyone who isn’t a fan of goblins should be ashamed of themselves and apologize to Thunt immediately.

          • joeks says:

            this exchange isnt about the quality of goblins at all, actually. goblins could be drawn by da vinci and written by shakespeare and this would still be a fucking terrible way to handle a person calling you an insult over the internet. i mean, i think that her interpretation was pretty off myself and that the page didnt imply rape at all, but publishing your demand for an apology on the front page of your website is utterly ridiculous, childish, and petty.

    • eberhart says:

      Actually it seems like internet justice, amazingly. So awful, we don’t always get to hide behind anonymity when posting utter manure. Hah, who am I kidding, even manure is acceptable – but throwing it in someone’s face without a reason? Hey, and it is actually easier to find original slander on Goblins homepage than anywhere else now. Let’s see kind of “opinions” we are talking about, THEN apply pathetic excuse about “misinterpretation” – how does it look? Not so relative as discussion here & now about “how can I see this scene”. So it is *good* he posted this, considering he is actual victim with slander going to be around, floating in random pieces over internet. Not to mention REAL apology would have to be without “buts” she is full of and of the same impact as slander. Good luck with that.

      Oh, and how dare you expose me and make me take *some* responsibility for my actions? I mean, I do not have any control about what I write, I am unable to read things before posting them… right? And it is totally fine for me to use my personal life story as an argument (or what? random unrelated fact?) against a stranger…over the internet… because I *have to* present myself as a victim to be safe from debacle I created on my own. Or to claim some insight on … what… oh, wait, no rape there, so… reading comprehension I obviously lack? Self-control I have never heard of? Common decency I apply only to myself because I deserve better standards? I smeared some manure on Thunt, who is NOT anonymous – but it is outrageous he strips me of mine! Also, people can see me now as a person who doesn’t shy from using “rape victim” as a personal shield. Rape victims should be so proud of what I’ve done, right?

      (Also, anonym spewing bile from horse so high about bloody webcomic is totally trustworthy to begin with, so yeah, so much about taking convenient confessions serious in the age of I-have-cancer trolls)

  74. Will says:

    Gotta love all of the trash talking and slander. Stay classy, folks.

    • biba says:

      i’m not sure you understand what slander is…

      • mrpibbleton says:

        Slander is when you point out the flaws with a webcomic’s writing and art and then provide evidence for said flaws correct?

  75. Ebi says:

    Oh for the love of all this is holy would you all PLEASE just shut the fuck up and go kick some puppies to death or something? This is supposed to be a friendly competition but it seems to instead turned into some kind of hatefest.

  76. I check goblins every day, right after OOTS and Erfworld. Then xkcd and smbc, subnormality, and buttersafe. The first two I check multiple times a day.

    As a result of this contest I discovered gunnerkrigg and unsounded. I instantly fell in love with both. I hope many other people had the same sort of awesome thing happen.

    I started to feel skeezy voting for Oots after the first few rounds and now.. I feel the same way about Goblins. Goblins is well-established, it has all the love it needs. Anyone following Thunt’s news feed this last year knows that.

    And then.. even though I love Goblins, have read every page and plan to read every more.. I like Gunnerkrig too, and at the moment, more.

    Goblins is good at long-running buildups and epic payoffs.But for perfectly legitimate reasons like the author having a real life, and his decision to split the story into three *compelling* storylines, and his ever-increasing attention to detail, Goblins’ pace has slowed down. A lot. Too much, in my humble opinion. It makes it frustrating to follow (which is a sign of success in itself).

    Gunnerkrigg and Oots tend to have a smaller payoff every strip. Gunnerkrigg appears to be extremely regularly posted. And the art is just as good as oots or erf or goblins- just different.

    I’ll be voting for Gunnerkrigg til it ends. But I have love for them all.

  77. sjgl8032 says:

    Really tough, both are at the top of the web-comic world. I’m giving it a tie as this is like trying to say an apple is better than an orange or vice versa.

    • Adam says:

      I think I’m at Chapter 8 or so of GKC, and it hasn’t really grabbed me yet. Should I keep going, or if it was for me should I be into it at this point?

      • Chain Song says:

        I’m now on my 3rd re-read through of GkC. Ithad me on page 2.

        if it hasnt got you after 8 chapters, its not your thing. thats cool. you’ve given it a fair go. thats also cool.

        if you wanna sink a few more hours you could read to the end, but i don’t think you are obliged to.
        if its not your thing, its not your thing. just be sure you don’t start a flame war about it. :)

        • Adam says:

          I’ll probably keep reading the archives, but I’m just not feeling it. Just not my cup of tea I guess

      • Matt says:

        I’d say give it a little bit longer. You’re beginning the area where the quality quickly starts improving now. The first 5 chapters aren’t really that great, but it steadily improves from there until ~chapter 20. Chapters 20 and onwards are, in my opinion, where the comic reaches it’s highest level, and never goes down again.

      • Mia says:

        I think that it probably isn’t for you. However, you’re still at a few chapters before some of the most popular secondary characters are introduced, and where we finally see the seeds of the Big Plot Mysteries.

        Like Matt said, the twenty-something chapters are the ones where the comic truly hit its stride, but don’t feel obligated to keep reading in hopes that it will eventually get interesting if you don’t already like it.

        Personally, I was hooked since page 1, which is how I knew that it was my cup of tea.

        It’s totally fine if you don’t like–at least you gave it a try!

      • Maju says:

        Chapter 8 and you don’t like it? Then it’s not for you. I love Gunnerkrigg and have been a fan since a year or two ago but I can understand that other people do not enjoy it.

        • Adam says:

          Heh, there seems to be a split between “keep reading” and “You’ve read far enough by now…”

          I’ll keep going, just to say I did if nothing else

    • Anonymous says:

      Oranges are way better than apples. Everyone knows that! ;D

  78. Jake says:

    I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’d really like to hear some comments from long-time fans of both Gunnerkrigg Court and Goblins. They’re both obviously excellent comments, even if you only judge by votes, but they seem very different in many fundamental ways. It seems to me they’d draw very different fans.

    -Goblins fan (love xkcd, Erfworld, OOTS, LFG, LICD, Schlock Mercenary, and many more)

  79. V says:

    I was redirected here from GKC and while it is one of my favorites, I don’t believe in blindly voting without researching for myself. I’ve never heard of Goblins before, but you gotta dig for those internet gems sometimes, right?

    I just spent the day reading through the entire story and watching the art and characters evolve as the artist grew into his style. Tarol Hunt created a very fun story that made me laugh. He made his characters grow and stand out. (I ended up liking Minmax! Not a character type I’m ever fond of in any story, but the moment he threw… well that’s a spoiler and you probably know anyways… that was a ‘Damn. He’s actually a good guy. Hope he doesn’t die’ moment. Any author that can do that to me gets an A in my book) I definitely recognize what made it a finalist and how it drew so fans. I count myself a fan for Goblins too now.

    After much deliberation, my vote will go to Gunnerkrigg Court this time. Both webcomics have that fantasy theme to them that I love, but Gunnerkrigg Court has more elements that I’m drawn to. Ultimately it was Tom Siddell’s imagination and skill in constructing fantastical ‘monsters’ that hooked me in the end. Goblins had plenty of awesome creatures, but it was usually along the same vein of artistry that while classic, have been seen before. ( I actually started a list, and it went head to head for a while: Goblinslayer vs Ysengrin, sword made of oblivion vs sword so sharp it can cut shadows off the ground, etc.) I know that’s they’ll both be getting better with time though, and I can’t wait to see what’s to come.

    Gunnerkrigg Court has my vote, but Goblins is getting my support as I’m off to buy the comic volumes now. Good luck to both Tom and Tarol! You are both awesome!

  80. jardine says:

    So, both these comics are pretty new to me, but after blitzing their archives I’m gonna have to vote for Gunnerkrigg. It’s just generally better. I’m very glad to have been introduced to it, actually.

    Goblins… really has some very glaring flaws. The art is quite awful – Tarol seems like a really nice guy, but he doesn’t seem to have any understanding of perspective or anatomy. None of his poses really feel natural, and he doesn’t seem to be able to convey dynamic motion; his characters always seem to be moving between one awkward pose to the next, rather than in fluid sweeps (which honestly makes the action sequences pretty dull). He also doesn’t really draw his characters with consistency – their muscles shift from one weird place to another between panels, giving them a kinda clay-person feel. His use of colouring is incredibly jarring too; he doesn’t really establish a variance of shades that gives depth and perspective to images, and his solid blocks of bright colour are pretty offensive to the eye when all presented together.

    The characters are basic, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing. The events that provide their motivation, however, are kinda childish and rely far too much on meaningless shock-value that ends up just detracting from the story Tarol is trying to tell. Additionally, Tarol often kinda seems to fall into the Dominic Deegan trap of continually using over-gratuitous violence to drive or resolve virtually all arcs of the plot, which gets very tiresome after the first few times and really isn’t too aesthetically pleasing.

    In spite of this, Goblins DOES seem to be founded upon Tarol’s desire to actually do something a little interesting with fantasy tropes, and there’s a bit of improvement in areas that indicates its potential to eventually break free of the flaws it shares with Dominic Deegan. As it is, though, I don’t think I could bring myself to vote for it. I think Tarol needs to be pushed a little further outside his safety zone of familiar plotlines and methods of storytelling before he can start making his comic really great, and I’d imagine that winning this thing would do the opposite.

  81. Twist says:

    Goddammit 80% of you, Goblins and GKC alike, are shit

    Go detox and read Cucumber Quest, it’s in the directory

  82. FuzzyZergling says:

    Wow, the voting is incredibly close on this one.

  83. Irrational says:

    A lot of people really don’t get it. The only reason these two got these far is because they’re BOTH that good — One may be better than the other, but that certainly doesn’t mean that one is a masterpiece and the other is a piece of shit. One is great and the other is better, that’s all.

  84. Assatur says:

    This was a good contest until the trolls and the rape accusations started coming up.

    Yes, that woman was wrong to be accusing the artist of rape and ranting against him on Twitter, but attacking her does not make it better as she retreats into a bunker mentality. In her mind, you’re simply giving her justification to continue hating and spread to her friends, like when you tried to give her examples of Goblin’s anti-rape stance.

    Both Goblins and GkC are great, each unique in different areas. I recommend you to read both and enjoy. And enjoy the rest of the webcomics recommended on this site.

  85. CP says:

    Wow, seriously a lot of bile being spit at both comics here. What the heck happened? Neither of these comics would have gotten far if it hadn’t been for the fact that they’re both amazing. Try a little bit of intellectual honesty, guys.

    • SharesLoot says:

      No bile spit at GCK, I think, a few trolls/asshats aside.

      I read the GCK comic way back when it just had a few chapters and I’ll read it again soon. For now, I’m going with Goblins.

  86. Vinny Of Los Angeles says:

    Why are we even arguing and detracting from these two fine comics? We each have our own opinion. Your oh so intelligently worded, well thought out common sense argument isn’t going to change my vote. If it’s someone who has never read either, then they should either read both or not vote.

    I for one, am a solid Goblins reader. I don’t even know when I started reading it, but I do know I was waiting for updates back when they’re fighting the Thornback Orcs and the Yellow Musk Creeper and before Tempts Fate even existed. I’ve loved Goblins. I’ve eagerly waited for each update. For the longest time, it was the only webcomic whose story had me enthralled.

    Then less than a year ago came Looking For Group and now I had two interesting stories to follow. Now I come to this competition and I’ve discovered a 3rd completely enchanting tale in Gunnerkrigg Court.

    At first I was a little put off by it, but as I read I got more and more interested. Now it has me under its spell. I’ve read every comic of Gunnerkrigg and Goblins alike.

    My vote is for Goblins, simply because without it, I would’ve never found Gunnerkrigg. I think of them as apples and oranges. They are both extremely well written stories that I dare not compare directly. Regardless of who wins the top prize, I think that I am the winner because now I have a wonderful new comic to read.

    If I were to list the funniest moment for me in each comic for Goblins it’d have to be the Three Goblins Plans.

    While Gunnerkrigg has the Fox’s Howl (growing up around foxes this had me at seams laughing).

    While the most heart wrenching/emotional moments for Goblins will be simply Taps vs Kore. That’s all you need to know.

    And for Gunnerkrigg, when in anger Reynard and Annie reveal revelations that both would rather have never admitted. Masterfully capturing how we often say things that we regret later (I have had temper problems and my mouth has cost me a lot in the past).

    Both comics able to strike a chord with me on opposite ends of the spectrum. This is truly a worthy final match between two authors who are not quite as popular as say xkcd, Cyanide + Happiness, the Sohmer/Desouza comics, etc. They have both gone full time. They both have earned it. But there can be only one.

    THunt, I’ve been following you for years. Stick to your guns. you’re fantastic.

    Tom. You’ve earned a new reader. I wish you the best in life.

    If my vote somehow ends up being the deciding factor, forget me being a broke college kid. I’m sending Tom the extra $100 (Don’t worry about it. I live on a research campus. Being a lab rat a couple times would cover it.).

    • SharesLoot says:

      Cool that you found Gunnerkrigg Court and like it :-)
      You’re also a much longer-time fan of Goblins and LFG…

      If you are looking for another great webcomic, I can warmly recommend Unsounded to you, which also has lovely art (maybe even a bit more lovely than our finalists) and a funny, gripping, and touching story in a unique fantasy world.
      I rediscovered it through this contest (I found it when it was just at 40% of now).

  87. Aaron says:

    Been a fan of both comics for a long time. I honestly don’t remember which one I started reading first. These are the two comics that I most eagerly look forward to updates for, and I’m thrilled they both made it to the final. I honestly can’t choose between them, and have split my votes between them so far. As far as I’m concerned, the winner of this contest is anyone who discovers one of these two excellent comics.

    The losers of this contest are the moronic trolls on this comment thread. Trying to read through the slander against the authors, the fanbases, and the comics makes me throw up a little. Get a life, and stop polluting the interwebs with your bile. Thank you, and have a nice day.

  88. Mortal Sword says:

    I tried to read Goblins in order to fairly judge its writing, but the art literally made me want to throw up. There are objective standards to visual art, and this comic violates most of them.

    Perspective, composition, anatomy, value, color, and panel flow are important, and they are all things Goblins does badly. Very badly. This is not a matter of “opinion” or “style”. It might be a good for the creator to study and practice these things.

    • Assatur says:

      That’s some amazing art to be able to make you throw up.

      It must mean the Goblin fans are all schmucks, or fetishists.

  89. CYANIDE says:

    WOOO Gunnerkrigg is winning.

    Has anyone else thought about a first meeting between doctor Edward Richtofen and Zee Captian?

    captian: Oh my, what a fabulous hat you have!
    doctor: Why thank you, es kompt aus Deutschland.
    captian:Ohhh. I must have it. I will trade you any or all of my subordinates for it.
    doctor: Hmmm… I vill give you the hat if you give me your spleen.
    captian: OK! … what’s a spleen?
    snippy: umm… I think we better go.

  90. CYANIDE says:

    WOOOOOO. I checked again and Gunnerkrigg is still winning.

    Oh I thought of something else.
    Imagine combining Nazi zombies with Plants vs. Zombies. Replace all the guns with different plants and the plants kill the zombies for you.
    Ohhh I want to see that big purple bastard chomping on nazi zombies.

  91. CYANIDE says:

    I wonder if people think my comments are funny or stupid.

    go gunnerkrigg .

    • SharesLoot says:

      Funny once you get into Romantically Apocalyptic.

      Stupid for those who have no idea what you are referencing ;-)
      Yup, RA is cool. A bit hard to fathom sometimes (for me), but with stunning images.

  92. mm says:

    I’m truly amazed how people could be so blind. I’m sure GKC has nothing to do with people who see rape in everything, but anyways if you open your eyes you could actually SEE for a change – best of luck to you blind people… Truly amazing.

  93. properpseudonym says:

    I do not understand why people have gone and made this nasty. I read both GkC and GC, and I like them both.

    I think Goblins is excellent, here is why – many people don’t seem to quite understand it. See, it is what some people like to call parody. It is making a mockery of this little game called Dungeons and Dragons.
    The characters know they are in some sort of a game, they make references to bonuses and such. If they were not aware of this, it would resemble OOtS — because in that amazing D&D comic (which I voted for) the characters ARE NOT aware of bonuses or other rules of the game.
    As for the art work, I think thunt should have stuck with hand drawing — because his rate of updates has slowed SIGNIFICANTLY, and initially before shading is entirely finished the comic looks wonky. I do however like his style, and don’t give a shit how he, the artist decided to interpret goblins as creatures. I thought his was just as accurate as any one else’s.

    As for the more contentious issues earlier, I don’t even understand how people could misinterpret that phrase so horribly. I did not think rape of ANYONE when I read it, I though more they were going to torture the evil min-max in hell for all eternity. I don’t think screaming rape is reasonable, or even marginally justifiable.

  94. Neouni says:

    I’ve read penny arcade for ages,
    Used to read megatokyo, but left when it became too much storyrealism and too little comic
    Read sexylosers, for silly 18+ jokes (he’s still around on tumblr at thinhline)
    Twelvedragons was fun, too bad it stopped due personal and website troubles
    8-bit theater needs to be mentioned :)

    Recently (few years) I started follow looking for group and goblins
    Think a few people from DDO pointed me to them

    Can’t believe how people misunderstand “Hey bald turd” for “kin”,
    but let’s not go there.

    irregular webcomic and darths and droids are fun, but I don’t grant myself the time to read the massive backlog.

    And if I would look at what comic I would get merchandise off,
    LFG, Tim calling out chicken on a shirt (Richard threatening to burn something down might get tiresome to explain)
    Penny Arcade, strangely wouldn’t be anything with the main characters in it (because they are all twisted or sick fucks in some way)
    Goblins, think a nice big lineup with all the characters, they are all safe for work

    • someone says:

      All safe for work? Not twisted fucks like in Penny Arcade?

      “Damn right I’m raping her every night! It’s actually a combination of rape and beating her within one inch of her life!”

      That was said by one of the characters in the lineup. A villain, sure, but a character.

      • Nenya says:

        A character who got slaughtered by the main characters for having this opinion, with his poor victim getting revenge right afterwards. Could we maybe try not to twist things to suit us here?

  95. Kaos Vel'Kai says:

    Well, its clear that one ignorant female has caused slanderous hate towards Goblins Comic. GKC isa beautiful webcomic, but the thing about competitions include the differences in webcomics and what they offer the reader… I got more fun out of Goblins… more profound depth with character development, and an evolution of art as Goblins comic progressed. Not Saying that GKC doesn’t have that, just Goblins was better at it (IMO). Read both, decide, vote, ???, Profit.

  96. David Matre says:

    When I first voted, Goblins was ahead by 20~ votes, and when I reload the page, GkC is ahead by 5, but both have about 200 more votes each. Very neck in neck.

    I’m surprised at how much of a pissing contest it is here in the comments section: I guess a contest with no ramifications or rewards doesn’t really strike me as something worth caring about in more than a passing respect.

    • Darius says:

      To be fair,

      Criticism of GkC goes like, “I’m not interested in it” or “I got bored”.

      Criticism of Goblins goes like, “The Author is a nasty piece of work”, “Looking at the artwork makes me vomit”, “The artwork is objectively crap.”

      How much of this is motivated by the rape accusations or trolling earlier is unknown.

  97. Quark says:

    I’ve been reading through these posts and it’s quite literally making me sick. If any of the GKC fans are like biba, then I don’t want to be anywhere near that comic. I never read Goblins until a friend of mine showed me it. After reading it, I didn’t get the jokes at first. It was the community that actually brought me in. Goblins community treat you like family. We have shared not just the writing and the story lines, but the Real Life of the Author himself. I’ve enjoyed talking with Thunt and he’s been more then open to anyone who’s willing to tune in during his live drawings. I’ve laughed with him as he drew and felt pain with him as well. Yes. We are his fans. But we’re also his family. You may not understand but we know him because we were there. We encouraged him when he was down. We helped provide when he was low. We are not just part of his fandom. We are his friends and family. Read back on a few of his blog posts. We helped build the house, literally, over his head. The marathon. The long nights. We did it because he’s not just an author. He’s a good friend. So when someone insults Thunt, they’ve also insulted us. On here we have taken the high road. GKC has failed by resorting to cheap shots and insults. Even if we lose, We will stand by Goblins not simply because we enjoy it, but because we are all Thunt’s good friends. If you can’t accept that, then we’re sorry to be of any annoyance in your life and wish you good day.

    • Relly says:

      Please do not judge Gunnerkrigg Court by what has gone on here. Tom is a wonderful and kind person. He has stated recently on his twitter that he doesn’t approve of any of the negativity going on here, and that he wishes for any prize he receives to go to charity.

      As a fan of his comic, I want Tom to receive as much loving support as he can, and considering he recently quit his job to work full time on it, I feel he deserves more publicity. But if this has caused so much negativity that no one is willing to try either comic, then what was the point?

      • Quark says:

        I’m sure GKC is a wonderful comic but takes only a few bad apples to spoil a good bunch of barrels… and because of these rotten tomatoes that I will not be reading GKC. I cannot endorse it and will not be reading it even if Tarol himself enjoys it. It’s like a bad taste that will not go away. None of the other comics has talked crap. LFG which actually employs Thunt, didn’t slander anyone. We were courteous and chivalrous to one another. It was ” Haha you beat me. Good Game. Good luck in the next round.” Yes a few of you might be good people but from the people on here, nothing but hate from one side to the other. It saddens and sickens me. The fans make the comic as big as it is. But if the fans act as obnoxious as I’ve seen, then I want nothing to do with that “team” as a whole. Call it, the “Pittsburgh Steelers” Syndrome.

        • Seriously says:

          Those rotten tomatoes are still ripe and clean compared to how Goblins fans have been acting.

          • Quark says:

            Then you’ve never met a real fan of Goblins.

          • LordsBreed says:

            It’s judgemental comments like that which keeps things like this going. Show me where a Goblins follower flew off the handle and over reacted, shouting claims of rape depiction and other atrocities.

            I personally have not heard of GKC before this comptetition, but the first few posts I saw from the people who commented on it were from GKC viewers and they were severely offensive and negative towards Thunt and the Goblins.

            Now, that doesn’t mean everyone who reads it is like that, and I am not saying everyone who reads Goblins craps and farts rainbows, but with such a sampling…

        • nony says:

          Ok, wait a second. I just went to the Goblins comic website to see what all the fuss was about on there. On the page that someone bashed, a demon says “You’re marked bitch. When you eventually die, some of my friends are gonna dog pile your soul.” That person mistook this statement for a threat of gang rape… The author commented that this is a major misinterpretation…… But HOW? It looks like the demon was actually addressing the man in his threat. But he was still clearly threatening something..? *sigh* I do understand that the ENTIRE tone of the comic shouldn’t be judged based on this one happening. Besides, it certainly doesn’t make the author a rapist sympathizer. People, we need to cool it down on here. I mean, seriously?

    • nony says:

      I’ve been a fan of GK for a long time now. I love webcomics in general. That being said, I admit that this is actually the first time I’ve ever voted on here because I’ve never actually heard of this tournament before (Glad I found it though). I hear you guys talking about the appalling behavior of GK fans, and I just wanted to apologize and let you know that not all of us are like that. But I don’t know exactly what happened though.. I got here pretty late in the game. I’ve read through some of the comments, and I still don’t entirely understand. I’ve read some comments that talk about how Thunt’s fans harassed this one lady for leaving a comment on here involving “rapist sympathizer” accusations, and somehow this is related to what the GK commenters on here were saying? Sorry, I’m not trying to be a smartalik. I just have no idea what has been going on. Can someone please explain it for me without getting into an argument? Also, I wanted to say that it seems weird to me that people would judge a comic based on the tightness of it’s community. Which comic do you think is better? Vote for that one.. Why should this tournament involve all this hate, bashing the opponents, and underhanded tactics like that?

      • Quark says:


        Hi. Just for the TL:DR version, Let me sum it up.


        13 hours ago

        To be fair,

        Criticism of GkC goes like, “I’m not interested in it” or “I got bored”.

        Criticism of Goblins goes like, “The Author is a nasty piece of work”, “Looking at the artwork makes me vomit”, “The artwork is objectively crap.”

        How much of this is motivated by the rape accusations or trolling earlier is unknown.

        • nony says:

          I see.. Well, from what I’ve seen of Goblins, the author is nice enough and the art is wonderful. I think I’ll read through the archives, and I’ll probably become a fan now that it’s attracted my interest. But I honestly still don’t get what’s been going on here.

  98. Kieran says:

    I really don’t like this discussion. They are…. they are just stories, you guys. Fun, interesting stories. Now people are throwing around insults, superiority, trying to devalue what others say through various means… Thunt’s fans are his main source of companionship, we are his friends as well as his fans. Him posting how he felt isn’t “childish or petty” it was just a guy talking to his friends about how he felt. From her side of things, she was looking at the opposition of her -I presume- favourite webcomic and having gone in already wanting it to lose, saw something which she mistakenly thought was a rape joke. She was horrified, and respectively told /her/ friends what /she/ felt. When people pointed out she was seeing something that wasn’t there, she refused to apologize, took others things out of context on her tumblr, and just otherwise acted superior.

    Overall, all this did was lower my opinion of people in general. Rape is a horrible, horrible thing. Being a ‘rape survivor’ genuinely shouldn’t be used as a shield in conversations to mean you don’t have to apologize when you do something that hurts someone elses feelings.

    Manners are universal. Everyone should dig deep, apologize for the hurt, and just go back to reading and enjoying comics.

    • someone says:

      Did Thunt apologize for hurting that woman’s feeling by triggering rape memories with his poor writing?

      I haven’t seen him do so. All I’ve seen was him saying he wasn’t a horrible monster and that he was owed apologies and public acts of contrition from the crazy woman who was besmirching his good name.

      If Thunt did not have to apologize for hurting her feelings, why would she have to apologize for hurting his feelings?

      • Kieran says:

        Thunt apologized for the actions of his fans, asked them on twitter, his blog, and his streaming feed to stop harrasing her. But you didn’t read what I said, much like she didn’t read what Thunt’s comic said.

        “Everyone should dig deep, apologize for the hurt, and just go back to reading and enjoying comics.”

        As in, I said they should /both/ apologize. And your argument against that is entirely constructed as if I had said only she needed to apologize. So, you know, your argument is nullified due to misinterpretation. How appropriate!

        At the same time, though, it really shouldn’t be the case that people need to apologize for what they write. A story is different to a real life dialogue. She directly targeted him with what she said, he just wrote a story for everyone in general. She would need to apologize to Thunt specifaclly, his would need to be “for anyone who was offended by my comic or my comments in relation to it.”

        If anyone cares, when Goblinslayer initially was revealed to have raped Kin (the only ACTUAL rape in the story) Thunt did apologize to fans who were hurt by having come across a trigger in something they read for fun.

        Either way, thanks for actually discussing this with me and being calm about it, someone! :)

      • Darius says:

        It’s called slander. She publicly accused Hunt of being a rape sympathizer and continued so after being proven wrong, ignoring the comments that effectively refute her statements all the while continuing her rant on her blog. She couldn’t handle the backlash from her own misguided, incorrect accusations.

        She then shifts the argument to blaming Tarol for being misleading and a lazy artist when the only person that raised any issue was her alone.

        Besides, Thunt did reply to her on Twitter.

        It’s strange for anyone to apologize and prostate yourself to someone who created a non-existent problem from nothing after being insulted and accused.

      • Nenya says:

        To “someone”_ Because She went a lot further than “hurting his feelings”and way into “assaulting his integrity as a person and a writer”? Or does that not seem like a big deal?

        • Seriously says:

          “So please don’t let this blog post paint a picture of rape survivors as a bunch of monsters.”

          Thunt wrote this in a blog statement. He’s a piece of shit that deserve whatever is said about him.

          • Quark says:

            ^ reason I won’t be reading GKC right here. Someone who has not seen the first public shot made by the woman herself in her very public blog. I What Thunt posted was already out there in the public. He didn’t want to outright call that person out by mentioning her in his blog but wanted to share what was upsetting him at the time. But you’re not going to listen to me or read this post. You just want to find a target to name call and put down because you like GKC.

          • Seriously says:

            Btw, Quark, I don’t even read GKC. Thunt and his fans have just been colossal pieces of shit about this.

          • Adam says:

            Hmm, how odd. I just ctrl+f’ed his blog post. Not a sign of that phrase anywhere. You wouldn’t be lying by any chance, would you?

          • Seriously says:

            Actually seeing the terrible reactions from Thunt and Goblins fans over this caused me to go back and see if he’s had similar terrible statements before. The quote is from the last time someone was offended by rape in the comic, and it looks like he’s gotten no better since then.

          • generilisk says:

            I’m a little confused by this. Would he be better if he DID think rape survivors were monsters?
            Either I’m misreading you, or you’re misreading THunt. And you were blunt in insulting someone because they don’t want rape survivors portrayed negatively..

          • Nenya says:

            Let’s take Thunt’s comment into context, shall we?

            “I also want to point out that the majority of rape survivors who have contacted me have been very helpful and communicative in a constructive way. So please don’t let this blog post paint a picture of rape survivors as a bunch of monsters. I believe that the truly insulting (and the one threatening) emails were just sent by people who’ve let their emotions cause them to see me as someone that I’m not.”

            In other words, some rape survivors wrote him threatening emails and some wrote back to say they’re appalled that he gets abused. The man has also asked people not to threaten the woman who harmed him this time over. Remind us why he is a “piece of shit”?

      • LordsBreed says:

        Thunt apologize when he didn’t have to. The person severely over reacted and saw what she ( I assume it was a she) wanted to see. There were zero references to rape in the comic on that page, and honestly it cannot be confirmed whether she was even telling the truth.

        Tons of people online are liards, jerks, and assholes. I AM NOT stating she is, but she would not be the first person to ever lie for attention and to subtract from something she personally did not like.

        We all have traumas in our life, and people are going to make comments, pictures, etc, which are not meant to affect you PERSONALLY. We don’t know you, we don’t know what your problems are.

        If you’re offended, fine, move on. It wasn’t intentional, it’s not on purpose, and it’s not the world’s place to censor everything to make you happy.

        • Pekka says:

          “It wasn’t intentional, it’s not on purpose, and it’s not the world’s place to censor everything to make you happy.”

          Thank you for this. I whole-heartedly agree.

  99. Ju says:

    I’m really disgusted at how Goblins’ author handled the whole rape scenario. He published the entirety of his conversation with her and framed himself for being in the right, and then completely refuted an attempt to criticize his art skills. Um, what? If you’re an adult that works in the art industry, you’re going to get criticism. It’s absolutely ridiculous that he couldn’t accept her “criticizing an aspect of your work that I think needs a bit more analysis and improvement”. That is, according to him, verbatim for what she said. She’s a woman, so why shouldn’t she make comments about how women are portrayed in webcomics, and comics/art in general?

    I’m really not impressed, Goblins. She criticized his artwork from the standpoint of an artist, wasn’t overly rude or abrasive when it came down to it (she actually apologized, once she understood the standpoint of the comic) and told him that this was something she saw commonly, and wished more people would work on. Regardless of the previous circumstances, which they worked out and resolved, she was a critic, giving her opinion on his comic. He just couldn’t handle criticism, so he utterly rejected it, and he is absolutely not the victim here. He’s just a guy on the internet that is not looking a whole lot better in my eyes than the ‘it’s my STYLE’ kids on deviantArt.

    • Kieran says:

      To be fair, she didn’t apologize. She said she was wrong, but refused to actually say “I’m sorry”… I just get the impression that if they had both apologized, this wouldn’t have blown up so much

    • Darius says:

      The criticism is not the artwork, it was the accusation that Thunt is a rape sympathizer and misogynist.

      Here’s some nice excerpts from her blog:

      a “oh god (tw: rape)
      So I looked up that Goblins comic that Gunnerkrigg Court is competing against
      and the very first visible page is a villain character threatening to gang-rape a female character when she dies.
      Man I hope GC kills this misogynist pile of shit dead.”

      go away, people who think it’s awesome to make light of rape for the purposes of a shitty webcomic
      P.S. if you can’t think of ANY possible way to show that a character is evil OTHER than making them a rapist/would-be rapist, you are a shitty writer, hope that helps.”

      The artwork criticism only occurred after being proven wrong on the rape accusation as she tried to shift the blame to something else.

      There’s nothing wrong with the author trying to settle the matter by showing the truth. Her irrational responses are to blame more than anything else.

      Sorry for prolonging this.. But the truth is much preferable to lies.

      • Kieran says:

        First off, I sorta love you for being so direct and honest when everyone is being all shifty and backhanded of late. Faith in humanity restored and all that. At the same time I would like to nudge you in the ‘everyone should apologize’ direction incase this somehow blows up even further

        • Darius says:

          I’ll prefer no-one initiating any insults and accusations either.
          The less the better.

          I’ll remind everyone to check out all the different webcomics.
          OOTS, Girl Genius and the ones that’s not in the competition. They’re all great and the works can never not need more love.

          • Hylian_Link says:

            Currently reading OOTS via recommendation of Thunt… All I can say is that it had me laughing from page 1. Really love it… And as for girl genius, well… I have yet to be impressed more by a webcomic.

          • Adam says:

            OotS and Girl Genius are both amazing works

      • Ju says:

        Here’s the thing: If there was a comic out there that made rape jokes, and that was the only impression you had of it, wouldn’t you try to spread the word about it? You might want to read through it- but wait, you’re a rape survivor, so you’re not readily going to read through a comic that you think might be full of rape jokes, because that’s one of the most traumtatic things to relive. So you express your disappointment that things like this are allowed to be perpetuated, and then you receive death threats and hate mail. The problem here is that he did not apologize for triggering her; he apologized for what came next, he apologized for the death threats and his fans, but not for making her relive her rape and then publicly post the part where she admits that she is a rape survivor. Because that’s not something he shouldn’t disclose to his entire fanbase, nah, that isn’t possibly something she’d share with him under confidential circumstances. She didn’t explain away her part in the scenario by expressing that she feels his comics and his style exploit women, she told him why she acted how she did. She unwravels why she was angry. He didn’t further pursue it with her and ask her why she thought about his comics that way, he posted it online for everyone to see. Which is absolutely sketchy in my book.
        She admitted that she was in the wrong, but he put himself in the wrong by publicizing her personal information in what feels like cheap retaliation to an art criticism. It isn’t up to him to share that she’s a rape survivor. It’s up to her, when she feels comfortable, with the people she wants to tell. That’s why I feel that he’s in the wrong, ultimately.

        • Kieran says:

          She had already called herself a rape survivor a lot of times, it isn’t confidential at all on her own tumblr thing, or in the discussion. She posted it online for the world to see, really.

          As for it being his fault for triggering it, I mean, I don’t think it’s fair to say that when there was no ‘rape’ reference or implication in the page she saw. She saw something that wasn’t there. They should both apologize for hurt done, but it genuinelly isn’t Thunts fault when she had misread his work. Again, I am saying they are both wrong. Her for stubbornly refusing to apologize or retract her hate (she has still continued to bash his work on various other points, and took /another/ strip out of context to say Thunt makes light of rape).

          They are both in the wrong. Her far moreso, because he was replying to what she really did say, she was replying to something he never even did

        • Nenya says:

          Ju_Actually, if I read 1 page of a comic, I would simply decline to make jokes about it! Or even take about it, to be honest.
          Quite honestly, he also didn’t trigger her; it is not his fault that she misread his comic. He also hasn’t publicised her personal information- in fact he has declined to do so, if you read his blog.
          Apologising for death threats that he did not himself make is actually generous.
          You don’t seem to be heaping any opprobium on the one who, with insufficient information, accused a random guy of being a rape apologist, but if the same guy, by the same, documents his exchanges with this person, he is “cheaply retaliating” and “in the wrong ultimately”?

          We are simply going to disagree.

        • Bob says:

          Bullshit. This whole is a load of crap. This woman was capable of reading that one text bubble where the demon mentions that alternate minmax was in for it when he dies and goes to hell himself, but couldn’t read anything else ESPECIALLY the bit where he addresses the target of his threat as “Bald turd”. Did she just skip over that to the part that she could use to drive people away from Goblins? Because unless she has fits of blindness and couldn’t see that the female character is NOT bald, anything with a functioning brain would KNOW the demon wasn’t addressing her.

        • Catherine says:

          Rape exists.

          Fictional stories will talk about rape. They will talk about war, and hate crimes, and atrocities of every kind that people inflict on one another. Characters will have varying opinions about all of these atrocities.

          Telling a story is not advocating rape. And it is not the responsibility of anyone in the world to refuse to acknowledge that rape exists, in fiction or in reality, to protect those who might be emotionally distraught by such acknowledgement.

          In fact, not acknowledging that rape exists is perhaps the worst thing we could possibly do in our attempts to abolish it.

          The argument here seems to be that a fictional author should apologize for writing about rape, because such mention of rape could be or is in fact traumatic to a rape survivor. This is ridiculous on every level, notwithstanding the fact that the comic page in question did not, in fact, mention rape. She evidently thought that “dog pile” was a euphemism for gang rape, which even urban dictionary (the internet’s reliable guide for any term that could possibly be used as a sexual reference) can’t back her up on: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=dog+pile

          Even so. Thunt has written a character who has raped another in previous story arcs. That mention of rape was evidently traumatic for some fans of the story, but the world was not designed to protect you from any mentions of something you find traumatic.

          To put this another way: I can’t think of many action-adventure comics in which some character has not brutally murdered another. Yet you don’t see people who have known loved ones to be brutally murdered popping up to bemoan how insensitive you were to their feelings.

          Rape exists. If its existence bothers you, then join the club. If it bothers you so very much that you cannot see it fictionalized, then you need to get off the internet, because you evidently require more protection than this medium can provide you.

          I doubt that’s the case. I’m sure that while the mention of rape is upsetting to this woman, she is capable of dealing with her feelings in healthier ways than lashing out at the author of a fictional work.

          She may want to look into the portion of her personality that sees every slang term as a euphemism for rape, though. That’s more trauma than anyone needs to inflict on herself. And she did inflict that trauma on herself. The very suggestion that Thunt did so with his stories is preposterous.

      • someone says:

        I didn’t see this as shifting the blame to some other aspect of the comic. More as a “hey, since you’re the author, now that we’ve settled that issue, there’s something else that’s kinda bugging me about your comic and that you could work on.” And Thunt’s take on this was “This is not an apology, therefore this person clearly is unreasonable.”

        But what annoys me the most about the whole issue is how Goblins fans are turning this mess into a reason to vote against Gunnerkrigg Court, as if Tom Siddell’s brilliant comic was in any way responsible for this.

        • Adam says:

          Wha? Go through the comments, and show me a post where a Goblins fan insulted Tom or his comic. Now, go through them again, and count up where Gunnerkrigg Court’s “fans” insult Thunt and his comic. Use a calculator for that second part, you’ll need it

          • someone says:

            There’s one right at the top of this page:

            Quark, 3 hours ago:
            “I’ve been reading through these posts and it’s quite literally making me sick. If any of the GKC fans are like biba, then I don’t want to be anywhere near that comic. […] On here we have taken the high road. GKC has failed by resorting to cheap shots and insults.”

          • jardine says:

            Can’t help but notice that you’re already being pretty serrated there, Adam. ‘someone’ didn’t say people had been insulting Tom, but that there are Goblins fans taking the actions of a few trolls and publicly saying that people shouldn’t vote for Gunnerkrigg because of them.

            Frankly, both sides are being childish. The trolls are trolling, and Goblins fans are being really over-touchy here. I can’t help but a lot of things that have been taken as insults haven’t really been personal at all – it is not an insult or a taboo thing to say you think something is bad and why you think this. A lot of fans are treating every bit of criticism as a personal slight against them.

          • Quark says:

            Since I can’t reply to someone’s post, I’ll elaborate here. I meant to mention GKC fans, not GKC itself. I apologize in making you think I meant the Comic itself. I’m sure the comic has some good points to it. No I will not read GKC because it only takes one bad apple to spoil the barrel and right now my appetite can’t handle the “Apple” that is GKC. Maybe after it’s turned into warm apple cider will I give it a chance but because I can see how this has affected people, to name calling and slandering of someone they don’t even know, do I call into question GKC community as a whole. I cannot endorse a comic who’s fan base has been nothing but rude to some of the nicest people I know. And if this post here offends you, then I apologize once again for damaging your views of the Goblin Community and bid you good day.

        • Nenya says:

          What’s been more off-putting to voters; the suggestion that Tarol Thunt is a rape apologist or the suggestion that Tom Siddell’s fans are gits who don’t play fair?

          People are people. Hurt them with something and then they won’t come closer and let you hurt them again. Is human nature.

    • Elodia7 says:

      To be fair, the entire conversation is in a public venue. She posted on a blog, Thunt replied on Twitter. There is nothing private about the entire event so what’s wrong with bringing the whole works together to ensure confused readers who just got up can figure out what the heck is going on? I’d rather have the entire context, which Thunt was kind enough to provide in his blog post.

      If you don’t like the content of Goblins just leave and leave the author alone. No-one is forcing you to read it.

    • LordsBreed says:

      There are many different art styles in the word, and nothing is made that will impress everyone. I would like to see you attempt to take criticism from someone that is obviously distraught and emotional, accusing you of atrocities which you are not guilty of. You let someone do that to you, and then try to be in control and objective.

      You are entitled to your opinion about Goblins artwork, just like how I see GKC as Palcomix porno art equivalent, or that it looks like it’s from a $100 to make Bratz commercial.

      Again, the world is not here for everyone. Some people are too emotional to live in reality, just because she over reacted to something does not make the person who drew that something a monster.

      I am sorry something like that ( may have potentially ) happened to her, but her reaction was not justified.

    • Zaf says:

      “That is, according to him, verbatim for what she said. She’s a woman, so why shouldn’t she make comments about how women are portrayed in webcomics, and comics/art in general?”

      With the exception of the slutty Drow from the beginning of the story and the guy’s second character after his Drow died, not one of the female characters has had cleavage or other delicate bits exposed. Even then, that Drow was only drawn that way for comedic effect because the character herself is RPed by a guy that doesn’t know how to play a girl IRL. Oh, and Kin when she was still owned by Goblinslayer, but that was less “LET’S SHOW SOME TITS LOL” and more “My captor likes seeing me naked as possible.”

      Otherwise, nothing. Young and Beautiful, Fox, the leader of the Viper clan, Kin, and a bunch of female monster adds in the fight in Brassmoon (there might be a few I’m missing). Not a single bit of sexualization or even cleavage. Fox’s shirt/dress thing goes up a little high, but we’re never shown anything explicitly or implicitly sexual.

      So, no, I don’t think Thunt needs to accept criticism on something that’s not there.

  100. tchock says:

    go vote where? i’ve read this 20 times and i swear i must be the worst at reading comprehensions because i can’t find where it says i’m supposed to do this

    • tchock says:

      aaaand nevermind, i guess someone already voted on my ip or something

      • Anonysoup Hard says:

        yeah, that happens. My bro couldnt vote in his PC cuz I already voted thru mine. Guess I denied his right to vote, lol

  101. Khaosic says:

    I’m a big fan of Goblins since years, I absolutely don’t care about that case of calomny, and I decided to vote for GCK which I just discovered and read in one day. Because as much as I love Goblins, I am also someone who’s triggered by good art skills (I never liked Goblins’ artwork, it’s just the storytelling who is awesome). GCK is beautiful, as much as it have a very interesting story. From now one, I will read it along the others I’m reading. Thanks Goblins for making me discover this new pearl @o@

    And I agree to a fact : It seems this contest became a place of war between fans instead of a way to discover new things. That’s pretty sad for them.

    (Sorry for my english, it’s not my native language ^^’)

  102. Anonysoup Hard says:

    I find this situation funny. Not Funny HAHA, but funny like a distressing fart that a doctor ought to examine in fear of the patient harboring dead intestines or something.

    Goblin fans attacking (yes i say attacking, some of these ‘defense’ responses come pretty abusive too) Gunnerkrigg fans for attacking their author/comic? Its like a snake eating its own tail, fans attacking each other cuz the other fans are attacking them, so on and so on.

    First of all, I went to the GKC forums, I couldn’t find one REALLY mean bone out of those comparatively quiet folks. Some are even happy to see the goblins author join and start reading the comic they adore.

    To those painting those meek fans ill, have you ever considered that goblin-ward insults are mostly from just regular old internet trolls, hungry for your rage?

    And those on the other side, I can’t tell wether you’re a fan or not. It might be just me, but I can’t imagine anyone who honestly enjoys the lighthearted story of GKC would resort to insults, even if they meant the insult as an opinion.

    ALL These contestants are good authors if they are popular enough to even be nominated. They weave stories with the hope of at least 1 person enjoying their work, and they accomplished at least this much. In the end we all want recognition for our favorite author/comic, but I doubt anyone would want to be remembered for this mess.

    I hope that prize money was worth all that hassle. Oh, and the glory of being #1 in this poll too, for all its worth.

    • Kieran says:

      According to his twitter feed, Thunt is no longer enjoying the competition. I can’t imagine the GKC fellow will be too happy when he logs on and sees this mess, either. It must be awfully painful to see such a lovely premise devolve into such… I don’t have a word for it

      • Hylian_Link says:

        Quagmire of insults and derisive speech? Perhaps that’s the term you’re looking for….

      • stephen says:

        Tom Siddell tweeted his dismay, too, and suggested any prize money should be donated to Child’s Play.

        I don’t understand the appeal of Goblins, but that doesn’t mean that there is something wrong with people who like it. There are people whose opinion I respect who prefer it to Gunnerkrigg. Maybe someday I will, too. If not liking something most other people do was abnormal, we’d all be “Garfield” fans.

    • Darius says:

      The authors have nothing against each other.

      But I sincerely hope the ‘accusation’ saga doesn’t leap away onto 4chan or something.

  103. Niton says:

    Aww.. poor Thunt. Now that he’s publicly dragged a woman who misread his comic (which DOES feature rape played as a story device) through the mud on his own website, with a wink wink nudge nudge “don’t harass her disclaimer and people have called him on it, he’s no longer having fun.

    That must suck, huh? All he’s done is publicly fan the flames about his comic’s shortcomings, tell anyone who criticizes him how wrong he is, use his own website as a platform from which to publicly call out someone over a misunderstanding that upset him, and gotten his fanbase to start talking about whether or not she’s a real ‘rape victim’, because ‘rape victims don’t act like that’.

    Oh, and he’s had a comic done for 6 months that he hasn’t found time in his 50+ hour a week, single page a week schedule to finish touching up. A comic that earned him $47k.

    Grow up, Tarol.

    • Kieran says:

      Not fair whatsoever. He has asked on twitter, the forums, his live streaming feed, and his blog posts for people to not insult or harass this lady. Don’t blame him for that.

      The ‘shortcomings’ were imagined ones. He was talking to his friends (again, Thunts fans are his main source of companionship) about something that was effecting him that day. Think of it like a diary entry. Giving out to him for ‘dragging her through the mud with his posts!’ is ridiculous, since she did the exact same thing to him to start all of this.

      The fanbase reaction is irrelevant, since half of them are probably just bandwagon-y internet trolls rather than people who are actually trying to discuss this.

      He does two pages a week, not one. And ‘Tempts Fate’ has always had a slow update rate, it’s always been the point of it.

      Conduct yourself in a more pleasant manner, Niton

    • Adam says:

      It really amazes me how people such as yourself can so blithely embarass yourselves by allowing people to actually read the thoughts that run through your heads.

      Reality be damned, your version of events (even if they directly contradict what anyone can read for themselves) is the Trooth!

      Where’s the “wink wink nudge nudge”? Where did he “tell anyone who criticizes him how wrong he is”? *She* used her website to publicly call him out, and spread it across the internet. Thunt posted on his blog to address it. Hell, if someone were to accuse me of the crap she did, I’d want to defend myself too. Where did he imply that she wasn’t a rape victim? Where did he say “rape victims don’t act like that”? Here, I’ll make it easy for you:


      There’s the link to his blog post. All the answers to my question are, I’m sure, in there. Just point them out for me please.

      As for the TF page, as I’m pretty sure you didn’t contribute, I don’t see how you have any place to complain. And I haven’t seen any complaints from any that have contributed.

      You people seriously just aren’t even worth the time.

      • someone says:

        The “rape victims don’t act like that” thing was posted by a commenter here. It’s a bit unfair of Niton to imply like he did that it was Thunt’s own words, as he isn’t responsible for all the misbehavior of his defenders.

        • finch says:

          Except he didn’t imply that Thunt said that. Not in the least.
          “[…] gotten his fanbase to start talking about whether or not she’s a real ‘rape victim’, because ‘rape victims don’t act like that’.”
          >gotten his fanbase
          >HIS FANBASE
          >Somehow think this means “OH MY GOD THUNT IS SUCH AN ASSHOLE HOW CAN HE SAY THAT!!!!!!”

        • finch says:

          And for the record, “getting his fanbase” to say things like that doesn’t imply that he directly told them to do it, nor does it mean that was his intention.
          Seeing a friend reblog things on Tumblr about Homestuck, without her ever talking to me about the comic got me to read it, because I thought “oh hey, this art is cool”.

  104. Hylian_Link says:

    Howsabout we just stop all this talk of rape and all the he-said-she-said madness, and just enjoy all the comics, yeah?

  105. jardine says:

    To be honest, while the ‘rape victim shaming’ looks like mostly paranoia, the way Tarol handled rape as a plot-device DID put me off Goblins quite a bit when I was checking out both the finalists. As I said earlier, he does seem to fall back on shock-value quite a bit, and it’s very hamhanded and after a while really trivializes the shocking material being put forward.

    I can’t help but notice that a lot of fans of both comics are taking critiques like this ridiculously personally. Don’t. Tarol’s reliance upon repetitive shock-value material is one of his flaws as a writer. If you want him to get better, both as a storyteller and an artist, then stuff like this really shouldn’t be ignored.

    • Midanor says:

      Personally, I can’t really see what you mean. Rape only once appeared in the comic (where it was definitely that, not some “oh, I interpreted it in this way” which, in my opinion, an author cannot be much blamed of as long as he does not strongly imply it, which also was not the case). In the scene where rape was a subject, he appologized to those people he offended. But I think it was in the line of the whole story (and the (evil) character) and not only a simply device for the shocking effects.
      As to violence in general – well, the story takes place in a D&D universe, so basically it has got to be there in some way. As to how he depicts it – I guess he could do it “off-panel”, but on the other hand, I think people can differ between painted violence and real violence and I never had the feeling it was “out of place”, meaning not in context with the storyline in general.
      Of course, I know this is just a different opinion, but still…after reading so much I thought I’d also state my opinion :-)
      So – keep reading comics everybody and feel free to like or hate whichever you want

      • jardine says:

        You misunderstand. I don’t really think that any of the stuff presented in Goblins is offensive. I just think its bad writing.

        I just can’t really help but notice that Tarol’s prime tool for establishing tension or threat is to introduce a whole load of gratuitous cruelties, and his prime tool for moving things along, resolving conflict, or creating tension within a fight sequence is very awkward hyperviolence. This kind of stuff does have its place within storytelling, but it shouldn’t dominate the plot in such a way, nor should it become so repetitive. It often requires some level of subtlety and restraint to make an atrocity of any kind have weight. I think Tarol needs to learn to sometimes hint rather than demonstrate, to manipulate his audience’s imagination in a way that he currently isn’t doing.

        As for the hyperviolence; it really is just oversaturated and over-repetitive. Tarol obviously wants to create some tension in his fight scenes, but he only seems to know how to do this by chucking wounds everywhere. Action sequences where characters just lay into one another over and over get pretty dull, and the level of gore and hurt is so constant that it doesn’t have any impact. I never really, throughout reading, ever thought “Oh man, this is serious, look how badly Minmax and this guy are ripping each other up. I wonder if Min can hold out”, because this is basically what happens every time a conflict arises.

        • Rafi says:

          The wounds thing is because the comic is based on D&D, where lots of little wounds happen in combat. It’s a stylistic choice, and you’re free to dislike it, I just wanted you to know where it’s coming from. The same is true of the “jelly doughnut” thing–it represents how D&D characters are made of hitpoints and how the wounds never affect them until they fall. Thunt actually subverts this somewhat with his permanent wounds mechanic, something carried over from his DMing days (see Complains’ arm).

          • jardine says:

            Oh, I’m aware. It’s joked about in the comic itself, and I’ve played enough pen&paper to have recognized what Tarol was doing pretty early on.

            The problem with it is that, when the story takes a darker turn and the violence is played a little straighter, it doesn’t really have the effect of raising tension. The hyper-gore is so prevalent that when Tarol wants to make things seem really dire and switches to hyperhyper-gore, it has no impact. I’m not saying the gore has to go, as it’s part of the humorous side to the comic, just that Tarol should find other ways to increase tension and move things along.

  106. T.A. Martin says:

    Crap… I’ve followed and loved both of these strips for several years now. How so ever shall I choose?

    Pulling out the d% dice. :lol:

  107. The Law says:

    So, having never read Gunnerkrigg i went to take a gander. My god. This initial page is horrible and disgusting.

    In the very first panel, the person’s smoking. SMOKING A PIPE. This is just….why would you do that? Marijuana is illegal, like it or not, why would you promote the use of that? It doesn’t matter if it’s unfair or not, the point is you’re promoting an illegal activity. What’s wrong with the author?

    Then we move onto the rocket, an obvious and disgusting phallic symbol. Blatantly sexist and by giving the woman the “trigger” we have another obvious symbol for the sexual act called a “hand-job”. Let’s not even get started on the fact she’s wearing a skirt. Of course she is. She’s a woman in a comic! She probably gets raped later.


    • Hylian_Link says:

      … You sir, are amazing. Top drawer. You, if I may use the analogy, just rolled a natural 20 in “Wit” :)

  108. The Law says:

    Annnd in retrospect I don’t think people will understand that poor-tasted joke I made just by the winky face. It should be obvious but as this has problem that’s not the case.

    But anywho, the comics not bad. Neither are. People are just silly.

  109. Will says:

    Gunnerkrigg Court obviously has the younger readers judging from all of the immature trash talk and slander pervading the comment section.

    • jardine says:

      Which you illustrate by trash-talking. Very nice.

      I’ve said this before, but after looking through the archives, I can only find about three posters whose critical comments towards Goblins were 1. aimed at the author 2. entirely unfounded or 3. very personal.

      Everyone here needs to stop being so over-sensitive. You have the right to think a comic is good and say it. The fact that your opinion exists does not mean other people cannot say they think it is bad. You shouldn’t take that as a personal slight against you, because its not.

  110. mugiwara says:

    I had some trouble to get in Goblins because of the art, especially the eyes that reminds me of Yugi-Oh, but I’m now checking it every thursday and freeday.

    It’s a solid story, with a good balance between humour and dark. I still have problem with the character’s faces, but I love the color work.

    That said, I still thing GKC is far better. The artwork is amazing (only bested by Unsounded’s) and even in the first pages, the backgrounds are very well done and give the comics a unique atmosphere.

    A great number of compelling characters, evolving through interactions with each others, some mysteries (origins of the Court, true nature of Jones..) and a lot of hilarous moments (it’s a matter of taste, but I prefer GKC humour).

    Concerning the little flame war, I think Goblin’s writer had every right to post this discussion on his blog. He has been wrongly accused and newcomers discovering his webcomic had to be informed of the full situation.

    I also like how people complaining about the off pannel rape of a character seem to be less bothered by all the violent murders, maimings and graphic torture scenes that happened on pannel.

    • jardine says:

      Hey. Since you really enjoy Unsounded’s art, I just thought I’d recommend this:


      It’s pretty new and only updates once per week, so you’ll hit the current comic pretty quick, but the art is absolutely fantastic. Easily some of the best I’ve seen in webcomic scene.

      • mugiwara says:

        Thank you for the link.
        The art is awesome, indeed.
        I didn’t know that Christina Strain was writing a webcomics. Loved her color work for Marvel comics.

    • Moose says:

      I’m just going to put this out there: http://lackadaisy.foxprints.com/comic.php?comicid=1 It’s one of the few comics I absolutely would have voted for over Goblins. It doesn’t update often, but the art is awesome (among the best I’ve seen for a webcomic) and the story is solid.

  111. memyself says:

    So what bots are you Goblin guys using? They’re doing a good job.

    • Hylian_Link says:

      Uh-huh… Okay. Bots… Sure, we’ll go with that one. I mean, it’s not like anyone actually gives a damn about anyone else these days, huh?

    • Nenya says:

      Hylian_ “bots”, eh? Why is it that some people simply can’t concede that Globins is a fun comic with lots of fans, and treat it fairly? If something is keeping up with your favourite, they’ve got to be cheating?
      This is so sad.

    • Nenya says:

      memyself_ “bots”, eh? Why is it that some people simply can’t concede that Globins is a fun comic with lots of fans, and treat it fairly? If something is keeping up with your favourite, they’ve got to be cheating?
      This is so sad.

    • jardine says:

      memyself, notice that Goblins started to push ahead in terms of votes as soon as the voting mechanism reset for most people posting from America. And now that it should have reset in the UK ands much of Europe, Gunnerkrigg is getting loads of hits.

      If you can’t infer from this why these two comics often get alternating lulls of activity, you need to sit down and think very hard.

      • memyself says:

        Perhaps but it just seems too specific and responsive to be all legit votes. GC gets ahead and suddenly Goblins is voted up to 50 above. CG overtakes again and Goblins is voted 100 votes above.

        If GC is in the lead towards the end of the match, it wouldn’t surprise me if Goblins gets an impossible number of votes in the last hour. Calling it now.

        • S says:

          Isn’t that exactly what happened to GC when it was up against MSPA? That’s not bots, that’s people coordinating and spamming everyone they know under stress :P

    • Moose says:

      The only bot we have is our Ustream chat bot BotWalter (who can’t handle such a task)… and he still has a lot of kinks that need to be worked out. :P

      Speaking of… *heads off to continue tweaking the bot*

  112. Ocil says:

    Okay so I kind of hate both comics, but at least what I read of GC didn’t COMPLETELY repulse me.

    • Kieran says:

      I am incredibly curious to hear what made you hate both of these! Genuinelly :P

      • Ocil says:

        They both feel like stuff I’ve seen a million times before. And even done better. I don’t know I’m just not really feeling either one of them.

        I’m just horribly biased because I think this whole competition is garbage on a fundamental level, though.

        Also, the name Kieran sounds familiar. Do I know you from somewhere?

        • Kieran says:

          You possibly do! Where do you frequent? Though it’s a pretty popular name in Ireland atm so it could be someone else, too!

          I imagine the fundamental is ‘this sort of competition divides rather than promotes’? As that seems to be what happened

          • Ocil says:

            Actually, that’s exactly my complaint! This should be less of “Which Webcomic is the best?” and more “Which Webcomic can we help get the most new readers?”

            Uh… I frequent Arlong Park forums sometimes, uh, wow I suddenly can’t think of any other places I frequent. I guess I’m more tired than I thought.

        • Kieran says:

          for some odd reason my computer isn’t letting me reply to your last comment :P

          But yeah, I’ve never been on Arlong Park. ’tis likely someone else you’re thinking of, but if not throw me an email at stannisforking@gmail.com and I’ll see if you actually know me from somewhere :P

  113. Jeeevas says:

    Guys, I’ve got absolutely brilliant idea. How about you stop based your opinion of these two webcomics based on their easily insulted fans (which arguably the minority)??? Don’t pick one or another just because you hate the raging fans, they’re usually the most noisy one. Just.. just choose the best one based on your opinion of the comic, not the fans, because, really, every fandoms have their loyal obnoxious fans. Now it’s your turn to vote subjectively.

    • Hylian_Link says:

      Hahahaha… Yeah right dude. Do you really think people are that objective? Nah… The sheeple just wanna jump on the flamewagon.

      • Blank says:

        True or not man calling people sheeple makes you sound like a conceded douche who thinks hes better then everybody else flame wagon or not. That being said. Goblins is winning again the comic that beat MSPA? What sorcery is this?

        • Hylian_Link says:

          Eh… Guess you’re right. Just now that magic collar ghost is gonna strike again in my photos. Gotta lay off XKCD for a while, otherwise the next step is grammar nazi. ;D

  114. I’m going to put out my main deterrent from Goblins real quick. It’s the art. Now I get that doesn’t really seem to be a main issue here since minimalist comics like Order of The Stick, Cyanide and Happiness and XKCD were in the running, but it is perhaps the deciding factor for me. Compared to most of this competitions, the 20’s and 30’s chapters of Gunnerkrigg are pretty much eye candy on top of it’s story-line and character development. Goblins looks horrifically awkward whether I’m reading the first dozen pages or the most recent dozen. Maybe it’s actually not bad, and it’s just a style that I hate. Gunnerkrigg has incredible character expressions and clothing detail among other things(which was very weak in the earlier chapters). Goblins feels like watching a bunch of clay people wobble around.

    Of course that’s not the thing I liked most about gunnerkrigg, if it was then I’d probably be still fawning over Romantically Apocalyptic, which I don’t enjoy as much as a few of the other comics here, though it is also very entertaining.

    I like Gunnerkrigg because if forced to me to read non stop into the night, while laughing, crying and cheering along with the characters. It’s main characters are also very believable and it’s mesh of science fiction, fantasy and world mythology is incredibly gripping. Same for the consistent themes of growth and the many grey areas of morality that opposing forces inherently have. I really loved ‘Sky Watcher and The Angel’ for instance, and all of Annie’s visits to Coyote in the forest(Oh and the misunderstanding between Paz and Kat…). Not to mention the author comments are consistently hilarious, and I could probably listen to Tom talk for hours if I wanted to and not get bored.

    And oh god City Face, even if you don’t like Gunnerkrigg may I suggest going to the archive, finding ‘City Face’ and reading this ten page side comic. Might not be your kind of humor but I loved it.

    For records, my favorite comic of the competition is likely Homestuck. Which also isn’t as visually appealing as Gunnerkrigg really.

    I might try to force myself to read more of Goblins yet again soon though… I’m sure I’d find worth in it if I got past the art.

    • Clammy says:

      I would not get hung up on art. The nature of the webcomic business is that detailed well drawn art is nearly impossible to produce in time frame and on budget. Yes, there are exceptions, like gorgeously drawn Romantically Apocalyptic, but by and large, good art is not common.

      Nor is good art a guarantee of good comic. I find Looking for Group to be very well drawn, yet boring and unengaging. On the other hand, minimalist and frequently criticized art of Order of the Stick hides one of the best comics made today.

      However, in my view, the effort in this case would not be rewarded. Neither Goblins characterization, nor plotting, nor dialogue, nor world building will pull you in and say that the effort to get past art is worth it. It is weak in all of those regards. Unless you are turned on by excessive battle scene action, I would avoid.

  115. Hauptmann says:

    The whole disgusting nature of Laura Ellyn’s comments, her refusal to apologise and the continued lunacy surrounding her and her rabid advocates have done a great job in driving me away from Kangaroo Court. Seriously, I hope it loses. I hope people rig the contest, autovote or whatever they do in order to pummel this meaningless competition into the ground. You know why? Because it would be priceless to see you snivelling whiners cry a river over it all.

    Good job, Food Court fans. You made this a mockery of a competition that will probably never be run again. Idiots.

    • Ed says:

      Wow. I mean really, wow. Quite unbelievable. Kindly die. I second whoever it was that suggested that next time round the competition is run without this comments section. It’s really intolerable.

    • Hylian_Link says:

      Dear Hauptmann,
      I sincerely hope you choke on a bucket of rancid cat droppings. Now piss off with your personal comments unless you want them to be thrown back at you.

    • memyself says:

      So rather then actually reading the webcomic, you’re judging it entirely on one person from the fanbase?

    • Moose says:

      Yeah, Hauptman, you’re really not helping here. In all likelihood the individuals fanning the flames over this mess aren’t Goblins fans or GKC fans. Your comments just make all Goblins fans look bad, so in the future please think before you post.

      Goblins fans who are tired of all this BS

    • Justin says:

      While I agree that Laura Ellyn’s comments have made her the ass of this entire contest I do not agree with the hate for Gunnerkrigg Court. I am a fan of both comics and have followed them since long before this contest. So because I like Gunnerkrigg I am by default an ass? Or am I an offended victim because I like Goblins? I am neither. You can’t lump all the fans together, it just doesn’t work like that.

  116. Chain Song to spread the love says:

    “come stop your crying, it will be alright . . . ”

  117. Ulffy says:

    Everyone should just calm down and look at the facts instead of looking at an inkblot and trying to out interpret what they see

    1. The female in question offended and slandered Thunt (and his readers really which at the moment seems to be more than 11 k of internet folk) publicly after not taking the time and effort to actually see what was there.
    2. Aforementioned Thunt being thus offended didn’t handle his reaction quite like he should have and was petty(and tho this is speculation on my part helped incite the flaming banner of self righteous anger).
    3. As far as I can tell the female in question proceeded to play the sexual abuse victim card, on internet. Publicly. For anyone to mock and belittle. ON INTERNET. (as you can probably tell this pisses me off the most. A bit of respect please. Haven’t these people gone through enough?)
    4. The masses responded like expected, a great religious war was started. Boo hoo hoo.

    All of this lovely internet drama doesn’t mean Thunt isn’t a great storyteller no matter what else we might think of him(not misogynistic for sure, and neither a rape sympathizer. Just a bit immature and human) and a single fan of Gunnerkrigg Court shouldn’t mar your opinion of the comic. So much said I’d like to shake the hand of Tom for staying the hell away from this crap storm.

    Oh and ‘Too long, Did not read’ won’t offend me because you probably have read it all in 100 different versions anyway.

    Happy reading

    • Lethe says:

      Using the word ‘female’ as a noun makes you sound like a creep. So does the rest of your post. Think before you use words like ‘female’ and phrases like ‘sexual abuse card.’

      • Just a Reader says:

        The use of words by Ulffy is, as noted, not helping. We must be civil. But this should not cloud the argument. He is at least partly right. The aforementioned Lady should not be excused as being ovesensitive because of her status as a rape victim. She made her accusation in public, during a contest Thunt is competing in, with the clear purpose of hurting his chances of winning, even though she had not even researched her claim (read the comic). She is sane and accountable for her actions. Thunt, however, was wronfully accused and he had every right to refute the accusation publicly. In fact, he was quite civil and reasonable, from what i read.

      • Ulffy says:

        I am equipped with the famed double X chromosome as well. The term is technically correct without applying any insults or social constructs to it. I stand by it. Just as every male is not a man every female can’t be a woman. Pretty loaded terms for me . *shrug* a matter of opinion.

      • Ulffy says:

        And I apologize if you were offended by ‘sexual abuse card’. My speech has a flare for drama and creating verbal images. I did not intend to harm.

    • Matt says:


      Tom actually recently stated that he is donating whatever he wins to charity because he wants no part of this insanity, and I completely respect him for that.
      (I’m not suggesting that you now vote for Tom or stop voting for Tom; I’m simply showing how this has turned the contest into a spectacular failure when no artist (except possibly Hunt?) wants anything to do with it anymore (though come to think of it, Tom, Ryan, Jeph, and others never cared to begin with). A large part of it is thanks to Hunt’s lapse of judgement, but mostly it’s just almost everyone here taking things too personally and latching only anything they can to ridicule the opposing comic. (Logical fallacy party! Wooooo! *fweeeee*)

      Here’s something to consider (regardless of your beliefs, the message is quite valid):
      “Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.”

      • Just a Reader says:

        Logical fallacy indeed. If ethics are part of this conversation, may i point out that morally Thunt is in the right? Asking him to act like a saint is unfair.

      • Moose says:

        Thunt has publicly stated that this contest stopped being fun for him some time ago. Reading the vitriolic comments attacking both him and his comics can you really blame him? The sad thing is that most of the individuals who are fanning the flames the most probably aren’t fans of either comic. To those individuals I have only this to say, get a life. To all of the other people posting, let’s try to keep this civil okay? You don’t have to attack anyone else to prove how good your favorite comic is.

        • Moose says:

          Also, the same goes for anyone sending threats to this poor woman. Regardless of what she’s done, she does not deserve to be threatened.

      • Matt says:

        Hey, other-Matt, I just wanted to chime in and say I agree with Just A Reader here. The quotation you refer to is a laudable ideal to hold oneself to, but an unfair one to hold others to. This mess has been created by mistakes from a lot of people over the past day or so. I personally think that calling out one contributor’s mistakes as worse than another’s takes us all down the rabbit hole of trying to defend one’s own subjective judgment of the severity of those respective mistakes as the “one correct interpretation” of the situation. I think that just continues the flamewar, and is generally unhelpful.

        By the way, other-Matt, thanks again for persuading me to stick with Gunnerkrigg Court, earlier. I’m almost done with the archive… just finished Chapter 31… and I agree with you about the rate of improvement. I’m now up to “Hey, this isn’t bad at all, I’ll probably keep reading this” rather than “Eh, doesn’t do anything for me.” Still voting Goblins, as it happens to entertain me more personally, but thanks for persuading me to give Gunnerkrigg Court time to grow on me.

        • Matt says:

          Glad to hear that you’re enjoying it!

          I didn’t mean to direct that quotation directly at Thunt, but upon re-reading my post it certainly appears that I am. I meant it more as a something for everyone here to stop and consider for a moment. I didn’t intend to suggest that Thunt’s actions were any worse than the others’ involved.

          I agree that Hunt was pushed to it- being accused of such a thing would definitely offend me. That doesn’t make what he did right, but I don’t mean to be calling him a bad person just because of that one action.

          Suggestion for next year if this is repeated: disable the comment section. In theory it allows for people to critique comics, but in practice it results in 10% legitimate critiques and 90% blind praise and (mostly) insults.

  118. Sonic says:

    The author of Goblins is an ass, and may that be known for all to see. Here’s what he said to someone who interpreted his latest page as a rape joke.

    ” Oooohhhh, I see the problem. I need to be more careful. Of course! Even though she’s the only person (as far as I can tell) who thought that page had anything to do with rape, I need to be much more careful with my writing. There is absolutely no possiblity that she needs to be more careful with her reading and accusations. I have to give her credit though. Not many people can turn blame around like that while simultaneously asking me to do her a favour with the whole ‘get your fans off my back’ thing. That’s like stabbing me, then asking me to wash my splattered blood off of her shirt. I mean, it IS my blood, so I should clean it, right? ”

    What an ass.

    • Just a Reader says:

      Actually, that is a quotation from his blogpost on this whole affair. He comments on her reply and failure to apologise (as he sees it). The text can be seen in it’s entirety at the goblins page. Please, everyone, read the whole thing, isolating a small part of it to make him look bad is not helping.

    • Assatur says:

      You should read the twitter feed for Goblins and the blog of the rape accuser.

      It gets less rational and civil (although you can sympathize with her experiences) as it goes along, and that’s even before Thunt posted the blog entry. She continues to insult everyone after being proven wrong and even twists examples provided by commenters as justification for her beliefs.

      Why such a person could purposely create an non-existent issue, be proven wrong, and continue slandering another online with increasingly irrational posts is beyond me. Being emotionally fragile doesn’t give you a free card to ruin other people’s reputation and lives without justification.

      Thunt is right to be angry after enduring all this and to release the public conversation to defend his reputation. If not at the very least to refute her twisted accusations & point of view as she has undoubtedly got her message to other people, and many webcomic readers as seen on this site.

  119. N/A says:


    Read this. Seems pretty much like a rape joke to me.

    • S says:

      No one ever denied a character had been raped in the comic. However, this is a rape situation, not a rape joke. It is one of the most unfunny situation of the entire comic, and the moment Minmax realises that humans are not, by default, superior to other races. It is a plot point that affects many characters and is dealt with well. Not my definition of the word ‘joke’ at all.

      However, if that last page had really had the demon go “ohohoh I’m gonna rape your soul when you die sucker!”, THAT would have been a rape joke. It just wasn’t the case. How convenient.

    • nona says:

      well, read the next tow pages. seems like an anti-rape stance to me.

    • Just a Reader says:

      It is a rape reference and plot element, not a joke. Goblinslayer is evil and he actually raped Kin in the comic. In the next page he openly admits it to Minmax, who is so disgusted and angry that throws Goblinslayer out of the window, even though he idolised him up to then.

      • Lethe says:

        Going to the ‘rape well’ for a joke, plot, or character motivation just isn’t good writing. There are just so many things that are funnier or more effective at defining a character or moving the plot along.

        It’s a subjective thing, though. What isn’t subjective is using your blog to rile up your fanbase into harassing somebody who had an issue with the comic, all because of an internet poll with a hundred bucks at stake. That’s just super not cool, what the heck. Did anybody learn anything from PA and that whole dickwolves thing? There’s making a joke/plot in poor taste and there’s being a total twit when called out about it.

        • Just a Reader says:

          Being a bad writer means that you should call him one and not vote for him. But it is not what happened, nor does it justify this whole affair. And it has nothing to do with admitting Thunt was wronged and putting a stop to it. Him being aggresive about it (even if i think he was rather civil), is actually a good mark. He cannot tolerate being dubbed as a misogynist and rape joker.
          P.S. Comfusing rape jokes with rape as a serious plot element, shown in a definite negative light, is not helping the conversation.

        • Assatur says:

          See the problem is the argument has been shifted from
          “It is a rape joke written by a misogynist”
          “Use of rape as a plot/character device is bad”

          The first one has been blasted out of the water, yet no-one wishes to admit their accusation is wrong.

          The second issue is a much more debatable event, but you’re using your view of the author to judge him on your critique, which is hardly sensible logic.

          By combining the thought “Rape is bad writing” with “The author is a dick”, is beyond simple criticism of one’s work. The Goblins Author is rightfully angry to have people criticize his work based on insulting/slandering him as a person and hence tried to mediate with the woman on Twitter, (Check Twitter and the woman’s responses on her blog and tumblr)

          Besides, didn’t you see the woman accuse Thunt of being a rape sympathizer and a misogynist? That’s hardly a simple issue with the comic but a slanderous assault on someone’s character, one which proved to be untrue, and yet the woman continued to do so, before the final blog post on the Goblin’s website.

          So there was nothing being called out, unless you can prove Thunt is a rape sympathizer and a misogynist on that “gang-rape” comic page.

          • Just a Reader says:

            Not to mention Thunt makes money with his work, which means ground for civil liability for damages, should this go further.

    • jardine says:

      This is pretty clearly not a ‘rape joke’. It’s not being played as funny.

      What’s wrong with this sequence is its blunt use of rape as cheap shock-value fodder. It’s a very unconvincing, base way of generating empathy for one character while villainizing another. It’s also sort of ‘fast-track’ character development – someone here has said that it’s what shows Minmax that ‘monsters’ aren’t inferior to the PC races in the comic’s world, but it does so in the most hamfisted way possible. It doesn’t present any moral ambiguity, or give Minmax anything to really think about and thus gain some gradual, realistic character development from. It just shows bad things happening to someone for everyone to get angry over.

      It’s not offensive, but it is bad writing.

      • Assatur says:

        The problem with your statement is that the ‘rape’ for shock value is only used once, and serves as the background for one of the characters.

        To say it is bad writing to even use a literary device or plot once is questionable. If it was used multiple times, then yes, it is definitely a problem and lazy writing. But if we followed your line of thought, any mention of rape in any book, comic or movie is a cheap way to progress the plot and hence bad writing. The rape issue is used to build the character of the victim.

        It seems to me you have an issue with the general appearance of ‘rape’ and ‘violence’ in the comic rather than the actual usage of literacy and plot devices. That’s fine, but you can’t really compare this genre of this comic to general romance and drama which admittedly has much less gore and blood.

        • jardine says:

          I don’t have a problem with its appearance, I have a problem with its use. And while rape isn’t used multiple times, equivalent ‘pity party’ events are fed to the reader over and over.

          Really, the big problem with this particular scene is that the plot is entirely hinged upon this rape. It defines an entire character. Rape is something that can happen, and it’s not bad when a story acknowledges this. Example: Vinland Saga. This comic sometimes hints that rape has happened, or almost shows it, and it’s just there as a fact of the setting.

          Vinland Saga, however, doesn’t introduce a character whose sole purpose is to be ‘the rape character’, however. Doing so lacks any kind of subtlety and just avoids having to properly characterize the villain in question. Goblinslayer wasn’t developed. He wasn’t shown to have depths and heights. He was introduced, and then everything about his character was said by the fact that he raped someone. This is incredibly lazy.

          • Assatur says:

            Actually, you’re wrong in this regard. Kin, the ‘rape’ character is actually the designated slave character. The slave character, sapped of free will, is the main feature, as further indicated by the use of a control collar. The rape is to remind us of the villainy of the slaveholder, the ‘goblin hunter’, yes, but only after it’s been established the goblin hunter has been torturing, branding and killing innocent ‘monsters’ throughout the comic. So no, rape is not the main factor in that scene, it’s the ability for rape to be such a powerful symbolic action that even a dumb ‘character’ such as minmax understands as fundamentally wrong and immoral.

            As for the ‘pity party’, I don’t see anything wrong with that, as they’re mostly presented within the confines of the action-adventure genre and provides rich emotive storytelling,

            such as a blind goblin being chased by an adventurer

            a tortured goblin flashback

            In the end, Goblins is really a satire and deconstruction of the D&D type game and a good look into the different perspectives of all those involved. Maybe this would be the main reason, where the cliches are really stabs at the nature of the D&D game and a true deconstruction of its reality.

          • jardine says:

            Can’t reply to your post for some reason, Assatur. Eh.

            I would entirely agree with you if the whole thing wasn’t so… obvious.

            When you overplay this kind of brutality, it simply isn’t poignant. I’m aware that the Goblinslayer isn’t just some dude that randomly appears in a tavern, but everything about him is explained via thwacking the audience on the head with hyper-gore. If he DID just flicker into existence, and announce that he was raping a monster, would he really be a different character? Would there have been any less depth there? Any kind of menacing qualities or personality he might have is drowned out by the vast swathes of stuff we’re shown. It’s not illegal to write a character as a repulsive bully, but there are better ways to do this than to constantly show people being brutalized by them. It’s about as boring as it is ineffective. By the time he was revealed to be a rapist as well as a sadist, I couldn’t really care less, because the character’s evilness had already been shouted into my ears so loud that it just pushed aside whatever else Tarol was trying to say.

            Yeah, tragedy, vulgarity and brutality can be useful tools. But they are not the only tools. I think Tarol sometimes forgets this.

          • Assatur says:

            That’s fine, this has been a very fun discussion.

            I believe one reason why the gore and violence is much more pronounced is because the artwork of Goblins is really more detailed and colorful than most other webcomics. For example, OOST or 8-bit theater would be hard pressed to capture the same emotions with their style of artwork, and hence their leaning towards comedy and black humor. Goblins can do it due to Thunt’s detailed, colored panels, and it probably is one of the reasons why it is an somewhat gory action-adventure comic, as it delivers something hard to replicate with lesser work hours.

            For the Goblinslayer, I must agree with you on this point, but this is only from the perspective of the Goblins and Monsters. He is viewed as the same as an end-game monster in that regard.

            From the human perspective, the same character is a highly experienced hero, who protects the city from the monsters. This view is accurate too, if you consider the monsters as non-humans and the same way as pests, which is played with as the standard view in RPG games. It’s a major theme in the comic, where humans view monsters as monsters and pests to exterminate for XP, while monsters view humans as evil butchering overlords which is exemplified by the Goblinslayer.

            Remember, the literature that portrays humans in the worst light are usually ones from the perspective of those below us in the food chain, and this is no different. Thunt has chosen to portray this world in the darker end and it provides a great contrast to the colourful artwork.

            As for the idea that Thunt uses tragedy and violence to spin his story, yes, it’s completely true. I understand this isn’t for everyone, but Thunt has chosen to represent the world of Goblins as true to its roots, a violent adventuring scenario full of monsters and death, where the main purpose for the characters is to fight and navigate their way through their journey. Think of a more realistic version of World of Warcraft, in a way. Not all of it is just hack-and-slash, the story does borrow many elements from the more diplomatic elements of D&D, with talking, convincing and such, but the main focus is combat.

            This is an issue with the type of comic rather than the inability for Thunt to create a world without brutality or vulgarity.

            I must say though, it does put into perspective how violent a paper and pen game can truly be when you can visualize it instead of using your imagination.

            I hope you had as much fun discussing this as I do.

          • Quark says:

            Hi Jardine,

            I respect your opinion on the matter but offer this insight. Based on the world this is actually based off of, namely D&D, alot of games tend to lean toward having violence. Tarol has been a “Story teller” Much longer then Goblins has been going on. He’s got alot of experience to play off of and alot of the storyline coming from D&D is really all about the players. In D&D, the character archetypes are representing human nature. Kin, is actually a NPC. Goblinslayer, was in fact, a horrible D&D player. The fact that Goblinslayer is evil is because that is his character archtype which is, Lawful Evil with chaotic tendencies… if that makes any sense. He will work within the bounds of the law to get anything that he wants, but if there is any way to circumvent the law, he would go for it. Kin is an NPC that, by all means, is the lowest of the low in terms of D&D. Just your common sword fodder. The “Player” who is goblinslayer, represents what some real world players will do t to NPCs just because they can. I’m not trying to say this is a good thing, but to someone who has played D&D we recognize the Trope he falls into and what that kind of player is like because we have seen this player in people before. Minmax, is a player, that has evolved and, what we in D&D call, “a munchkin”. He has forsaken the ability to read for higher degree’s of strength. It’s through role playing though, that he evolves from hating monsters blindly, and actually seeing that some players are just that. Down right horrible people. He had the opportunity to be, just like goblinslayer, but rejected it and, being the illiterate barbarian that he is, “role played” his character exactly how you would see him. By throwing the evil guy through a window. Thunt has some means to his meaning here and it’s not just about rape. It’s about the growth of the player controlling the character growing behind the scenes and for once, becoming a very well rounded and interesting character.

            True, he could have made him instead go on a grand quest of galentry and mysticism to find himself, but in all honesty, would a character like minmax, who in his backstory knows only how to hold a sword and fight, who built his character on nothing but combat abilities and strength, actually accept something that noble? I doubt it. The player itself would be bored and it’s up to the GM, namely Herbert, To put him in situations he might find interesting. All in all, the story is alot more complex then just, “You rapist bad. I beat you to pulp cause it good thing to do.” Oh, and if you want to know, Minmax’s alignment is somewhere between neutral Good, to chaotic Good. It’s a debate that we as the goblins community have thought over for awhile.

  120. Rythos says:

    I’m so. Confused. Why the fighting. D: I’ve never read Goblins, and I love Gunnerkrigg, but either way I’m not going to go around arguing over a silly competition? It’s cool if the one you like wins, but if not, it’s not a huge deal, guys. There’s no reason for EITHER side to get all “rawr” with each other. :< Please to be getting along??

    • Just a Reader says:

      Shouldn’t it be enough that someone was wrongfully accused? Not to mention a creator whose work many of us enjoy and respect to a great degree.

    • Assatur says:

      Once you put rape up as an issue, people take sides.

      The argument has shifted from whether GkC or Goblins is a better comic to whether the Goblins author is a horrible writer who uses rape as a cheap device/ a rape sympathizer/ a misogynist.

      All that based on the accusations of a female rape survivor whose accusations were immediately proven untrue yet continued to publish them and attack the evidence the whole time.

  121. Ancient One says:

    Where are the moderators on this system? This comment thread has gotten completely out of hand. And I for one think that Glenn Hauman or others from ComicMix.com should have been monitoring what has been posted here and taken action to activate pre-approval or deleting any comments that have nothing to do with the contest itself. There is freedom of speech, but this is horrible. Just horrible.

    • Matt says:

      I suspect the absence of moderators is due to the holiday. Unfortunate timing for a controversy of this magnitude to erupt. I wish this wasn’t happening, too.

    • Assatur says:

      Actually, I’m rather enjoying arguing the literary values of the comic, as evident in the latest comments.

      It’s fun debating, but only when the context is kept within the confines of the comics themselves.

      I do take offense when people start aiming higher, and at the author, leading to all the ad hominem attacks based on false accusations, not to mention the mass trolling going on.

      • Just a Reader says:

        Yes, in the end, this discussion has forced us to consider the quality of literary devices such as “pitty parties”. And, if i might say, this kind of discussion is not off topic – the quality of the comics under vote is what this thread is all about. I just wish i had been drawn into this conversation in a different manner.
        P.S. In response to a previous comment, I do not think Kin’s rape is a “pity party”. The aim is to show Goblinslayer for what he really is and establish Minmax as an honest and moral person readers can like, rather than a stupid and barbaric individual.

  122. Creet says:

    Well I will just chime in and read over the woman’s comments about rape. First she did not seem to have the basic reading comprehension problem. The woman claims that the text is refencing raping women. Well the bald turd is the alt version of Minmax. If you are not following the comic Minmax is male. However if you want a reference of rape search back through the archives you will find this: http://www.goblinscomic.com/03032010/ now if she had read that then perhaps she could flip her lid cept Kin kills him good in the end. Kinda proves what’s Thunts thoughts are on rape and rapists.

    • Primal Zed says:

      I don’t know if she’d flip her lid at a rapist getting thrown out a window. Also, that particular character is repeatedly shown to be basically the absolute worst kind of person, finally spelled out here (well after his death): http://www.goblinscomic.com/07292011/
      Basically, that character is a case of a bad guy in a story doing bad things.

  123. Pedro Gomes says:

    this discussion is useless and hurting to the authors and fans in general.Of course, there was a misunderstanding, but that was already solved between the two parts who were involved in it,and we as fans and supporters of the webcomics that we came to love should just let it go, for the good of the people who voted and the authors who this contest were supposed to please.
    also sorry for my bad english, It’s not my native language

    • ECR says:

      The “misunderstanding” was never “solved.”

      The reason that most Goblins fans are upset is because there was no apology for the false accusation. She admitted that she misunderstood the one page she read, but never expressed that she was sorry for spewing filth at Thunt. She thinks she was justified in spreading vicious falsehoods about Goblins (and, implicitly, about Thunt) based on NOTHING. That’s the problem, and that’s why this thing was never “solved.”

      • Pedro Gomes says:

        That’s an example of I was just talking about, I will repeat myself and several others when I say this ,but what were some people expecting,the righteous retribution of the hammer of justice?
        Thunt already responded to the acussations he was subjected and stated his opinion that at least for me closed the whole matter.

  124. Kirin says:

    Wow, I just went and looked at that Laura ellyns photo on twitter. She’s positively raping the fuck out of that cupcake. I mean to rape the icing like that when it doesn’t want to be forcefully penetrated by her fat fucking mouth. My god, the only thing I can say is that she could be more nice to those cupcakes since they’ll be feeling that rape over and over since it’s all the fat bitch looks to eat. I mean as a “rape survivor” she should be able to sympathise with the things. Cupcake raping bitch.

    • finch says:

      Not only fat shaming but completely missing the point. Thank you, for being such a fucking awful person. I almost forgot the world was such a shitty place for a minute.

  125. fc says:

    This has all been a bit too crazy for what its worth but I really want to chime in to say, DON’T boycott the comics for its fans. Don’t read it if you don’t like it, but ignoring it stubbornly to punish the fans is the worst, because they couldn’t care less. Its the authors we hurt. And I don’t think they deserve that. I knew and read Goblins first, but I discovered GC from this and it now has a spot on my favourites list as well. I too got a bit mad about the ‘rape’ thing, but in the end, its just one person and we really shouldn’t fuel the flames. Yes, its the internet and there will be trolls and we should know this. At the same time, we should KNOW better and while we acknowledge there are the trolls, we shouldn’t become one ourselves.

    Both are free online comics, written and drawn for us FOR FREE and they entertain and engage us. Like it? Great! Read on and be a fan. Don’t? Okay, then don’t read it. In the end, all I have to say is Keep Calm and Carry On.

    Love both comics though! Whats amazing about both I think, its the improvements in art through time. Its really quite inspiring.

  126. reddo says:

    I know barely anything about the goblins fanbase and thr gunnerkrigg fanbase, but judging from what i read of both comics, i can say i genuinely prefer gunnerkrigg. I looove the characters, the setting is intriguing, and the storytelling is to my liking. Goblins is good too, but i cant seem to get into it. I’ll give it another try in the near future.

  127. fc says:

    @Reddo I think you should too! I think Goblins is a bit niche in the sense that its quite geared towards a person with some gaming knowledge with the gaming tropes and jokes, but past that I think it really excels in character development! I read GC in one day and I found it great. More things to look forward to 3 times a week!

  128. Glenn Hauman says:

    Go away for a holiday with the family, and the comments threads explode.

    People: please start dialing down the rhetoric and the volume. If it persists, we will start disemvoweling comments, then proceed onward to banning commentors and subtracting points from the totals as penalties.

    Fair warning. Happy Easter.

    • Just a Reader says:

      Actually, after monitoring this conversation for hours and close consideration, i think you should disable comments all together, if possible.

    • mightycleric says:

      I’m not sure subtracting points from the totals would help, as I think that a lot of the people are just trolls that don’t care about either of the two comics, and I could see others who are a fan creating accounts to troll for the other comment in order to get points deducted and help their side win. Subtracting points might be seen as an extra reward for some of these posters.

      I hope you enjoyed your time with family, and I’m sorry you had to come back to this. If some of the posts could just be deleted, that might help a lot, but at this point I don’t know.

      I hate that this has turned into what it has. I’ve really liked the contest and found multiple comics that I’ve added to my list, but this last part is what this contest will be remembered for, now. It has marred the beauty of what this contest was up until this point, but overall I still want to say thank you, Glenn, for running this, as overall it has been a fun experience for me and probably most fans.

    • Mia says:

      I also don’t think that subtracting points is a good idea; the internet hive-mind being what it is, that would only cause more resentment and, as a consequence, more trolling.

      Just disable/erase the comments section for all the pages with the polls. People can discuss the contest elsewhere.

    • memyself says:

      Please don’t mess with the votes as ‘punishment’.

      If it does anything, it will be people purposely misbehaving whilst pretending to be the other team.

      • The Dude says:

        Was just coming to post this myself. I honestly don’t care who wins (I like Goblins, don’t read GKC, but have heard nothing but good things), but if I were invested that’s definitely a tactic I could see being used.

        • Heh says:

          The Comments have just gone nasty. Peacekeepers are trying to stop it but the only way to stop it all together is to just get rid of the ones starting it. If you could track what they voted for, and removing their votes, then as long as the nastygram ones go I don’t see anything wrong with it.

  129. Justin says:

    Sigh this is why I stopped looking at forums. As far as I can tell the woman that began this fiasco either drastically misinterpreted the page in question or else is a simple ass.
    Either way when the community in its predictable manner exploded she began to enjoy being the center of attention. However when threats began to come in she tried to back out without losing face. When that didn’t work she began appealing to the person she insulted to try and get his fans to stop.
    This is a typical internet attention whore. Ignore her and she will go away.

  130. Billyjoebob says:

    HEY, HERE’S AN IDEA. Let’s, instead of slagging off one of the two final comics (likely the one you’ve read less or none of), or their fans, or their authors, let’s try to be civil here. If you wish to voice your own ill-informed, gutshot reaction opinions, for the love of various deities, do it elsewhere.
    That aside, I feel the need to hand this one to Gunnerkrigg Court. Tarol strikes me as a man climbing the cliffs of insanity wih his bare hands and, whilst that is impressive and perhaps even admirable; Tom, by contrast, is floating up ahead of him on a jetpack. Goblins is at times crude and bumbling and, while that has its own charm and I certainly respect the author, Gunnerkrigg Court has so much more ease and style, and feels smoother and more cohesive as a whole.
    That’s my personal take on the matter, anyhow, and I certainly shan’t stoop to accussing anyone of being a rape sympathiser, entire fanbases of being immature, or anything like that. I’ll just self-righteously insult the people doing that kinda thing, and pat myself on the back for being so much better than them.

  131. Heh says:

    And ladies and gentlemen. The woman who started this all has this to say about men…. Yes this is the woman who started this whole rape charge deal. How to Poison a man. http://ask-poisonivy.tumblr.com/ SO rape is NOT ok but murder is?

  132. Clammy says:

    Thunt once again took the high road… His latest message says:


    Recently, the person who was the subject of my previous blog post has contacted me to tell me that thousands of Goblins fans have been threatening her with violence. If this is true, I’m once again telling you to stop. Since my blog post about her, she’s put a lot of energy into telling a whole lot of lies about me and this comic. I say let her do it. If she wants to scream about how I find rape hilarious, then let’s all let her. She’s not hurting me or the comic or its fans. It’s her little corner of the internet and she can say what she wants to. Just like I can say what I want to in my little corner of the internet. What we cannnot do is threaten people we disagree with. If you’ve threatened her in any way, please, please just stop it. Leave her alone.

    If you’re angry about crap she’s saying, do what a whole lot of other people are doing. Send me an email to privately gripe and I promise to read it (I can’t answer all of my emails, but I do read them all). It will take me awhile, because well… there’s a lot of gripe and my inbox has gone a little crazy (thank you SO much for the support, everyone!). But leave her alone. I’m serious. I’m pleading with you. Leave the lady alone.

    As for the contest, Gunnerkrigg Court has picked up a nice lead. Honestly, I’m not surprised, nor am I disappointed. I am however, a fan.


    Welcome step after his previous message taking low road, and kudos to him for doing this. I would hope the fans follow suit.

    • joeks says:

      i would hardly call a message of “quit harassing that hysterical liar” to be taking the high road, especially since its entirely his fault the harassment is happening because he made a huge whiny post on his front page. seriously he cant even put his ego aside for a single god damn message. hunt is scum.

      • Just a Reader says:

        Please do not insult the man so. I noticed as well that he couldn’t help pointing out she made up lies about him. He is either a very bad diplomat or careless or immature, but this is getting out of hand. Besides, only a small part of what she said was said on this forum. Most of it happened on tweeter and tumblr, from what i gather. So this is not the place to argue, especially since he has taken it on to himself to try to solve this on his own page, allbeit clumsily.

      • Just another Reader says:

        So, if I stumble upon some of your work, misinterpret it horribly and accuse you of making rape jokes, and insult you personally, as well as insult your work – you will just be quiet, and let me continue on doing this?
        Sweet – please point me to something you’ve created, so that I can proceed to do so, and feel good about myself, as well as post on all my social networks how you like to make jokes about rape.
        Thank you.

      • The Dude says:

        Yes, because no one was bothering her before the author responded to her comments. At all. It’s all because he voiced frustration with her mischaracterization (Is that even a word? Meh) of him, his comic, etc. It’s not as if he even included on that “whiny post”:

        “By this point, a lot of Goblins fans were messaging her to tell her that the page in question has no rape in it. She still insisted that it was somehow about rape and that I was making light of it” and “After more Goblins fans continued to explain that the page didn’t contain any rape, she started to shift her tactic a bit”.

        It’s also not as if he, in that same “whiny post” told people to back off her. Oh. Wait.

        “However, I would like to point out that contacting her and calling her names doesn’t help anyone. So please don’t, folks. This’ll be the reason why I’m not posting her name in this blog.”

        But yeah, all his fault. She has no responsibility for the actions that started it off. Must be him.

        • Pinstripe Hourglass says:

          The rape threats only started after he disclosed her private revelation that she had been a victim of rape in the blog post filled with vitriol that he put up on his front page.

          • Just a reader says:

            It was not a private conversation. You can still read the post in her tumblr page.

          • The Dude says:

            Since when is a post viewable to the world on Tumblr considered “private”? Man, I am learning so much on the internet today!

  133. Sienna says:

    Man alive, I haven’t seen this much internet rage since Dave tried to get his avenger controllers before Christmas ;D

    I don’t get what it is about the internet that turns people into barbarians with keyboards. “This person really pisses me off. I know! I’ll spam their email with hate and death threats. That’ll teach the bitch!” Really? Freedom of speech has devolved to this? Excuse me while I commit internet zenpaku.

    Slander and misinterpretation of a comic panel is not something to lose your cool over. Words are, after all, words. Why people pick up torches and pitch forks and turn into one big blood thirsty internet mob when someone is having a scuffle with another person on the internet is beyond me. Rationality should always be on hand when surfing the internet, otherwise you’ll end up running into an internet battle with your trusty red shirt on. It doesn’t matter how epic you feel in that moment, you’re never coming back to tell the story ;D

    I think this whole thing has gone on long enough. Both sides of the issue have conceited [On some level], I think the rest of us should as well. Let’s move on with our lives and find something new to do. I hear posting images of yourself on facebook “Duckfacing” is all the rage now ;D

    • Moose says:

      As a Goblins fan, I don’t know a single person who has sent a threatening or hateful message to this person. I know many people are upset, but every single person I’ve talked to has said that they are leaving this poor woman alone, and some have even sent positive messages (which from what I’ve heard were rebuffed or twisted and misinterpreted). At this point, I think the people attacking her are 4chan trolls and not Goblins fans. People need to calm the hell down on both sides of this argument. Yes she threatened Thunt’s livelihood, but that is no reason to attack her. Any person who does attack her is the lowest of the low, and should be ashamed of themselves. On the other side, Thunt has done nothing to expose her that went beyond her own efforts to publicize her misperceptions, did nothing to deserve her attack and has implored his fans to leave her alone, so lay off him.

      The 4chan trolls must be like kids in a candy store right now. Personally, I’m going to try to stop posting in this mess (beyond occasionally reiterating the following plea), and I implore all people who are actually fans of the comics in this mess to do the same. Let the trolls reveal themselves by their continued posts, ignore even the most hateful comments, don’t post even the most well reasoned of responses (they’ll just try to twist it around)… it’s what they want.


    • Just another Reader says:

      Slander is not something to lose your cool over? People have sued others for a lot of money over it – that’s certainly a serious topic.
      And we’re not talking misinterpretation of the “I think your lawful good character is more chaotic good” – no.

      We are talking about accusing someone of making rape jokes, and being a misogynist, all because the person making accusations read 1 single page.
      This is not something anyone would take lightly.

      Further, there is reasons to believe that the accusation was done merely to influence the outcome of this contest – which means that the woman who said those things wanted to use such incredibly serious accusations to change the outcome of this relatively insignificant competition.

      None of this strikes you as something to care about? Perhaps, as I mentioned to a previous poster, if this was your work being slandered, you’d just bend over and take it, without protests?

      And, lastly, “all the rage” is the last thing to compare this to – you’re saying that rather serious accusations and slander are on the same intellectual level as “duckfacing” ? — perhaps you should re-examine your priorities and morals in life.

      • Moose says:

        Seriously, guys, this does nothing to make either comic’s fan base look good. Let’s all take a step back, take a deep breath, and calm the fuck down. Just another Reader, I agree with much of what you’ve said… but it has been said a hundred times by now. At this point repeating it is just going to perpetuate this disgusting flame war.

        • Sienna says:

          Just another reader- I’m going to take a shot in the dark and say you read nothing I posted before responding and therefore missed the point I was trying to make :/

          I’ll respond to the part that was directed at me: If I was the creator of a webcomic, and someone was taking my work out of context due to something regarding “Rape”, i’d be irritated, but that’s the extent of it. I’d take it up with the instigator, explain myself, however if this person chooses to be difficult and wants to spread something like this over the internet like wildfire? Whoopdefucking do. I’m a patient individual, i’ll wait until that fire burns out and people move on to something else. Until that moment, i’ll churn out more epic adventures in the webcomic i’d be making in that present time ;D

          Now since my post was related to fans and their ability to be like a bunch of barbarians on the internet when someone else they barely know is having a dispute, i’m pretty sure my feelings towards the whole thing should vary from “Not give a damn” to “I feel bad for the guy [Sends sympathy]”. I’m not going to fight anyone’s fight, and I certainly won’t take the whole matter to heart since, as I stated before, it isn’t a matter that pertains to myself

          I agree with Moose, however, in the post above. Let’s all take a chill pill regarding this issue and move on. Arguing over a matter that has nothing to do with us is in poor taste :3

  134. DB says:

    You people have serious anger issues, and if you take offense by that statement then yes, I probably am talking to you. Your libelous attacks should be prosecuted, since they will have a detrimental effect on Thunt’s ability to make a living, and if you’re underage, as I’m absolutely certain most of you are, then your parents can, and should be prosecuted for allowing you to act as you are. There is no excuse for for it. None!

    This was supposed to be a friendly competition, with the primary goal of bringing people to comics they have never seen before. Instead you are damaging a very good person’s reputation.

    if Thunt wanted to start a legal defense fund to teach you people the consequences of your malicious libel, I’d be happy to donate what I could. I’d only be sorry I don’t have more.

  135. Garlyn says:

    When the Lady commenting about THUNT and his comic said the things she said, she directly attacked his source of income. He did not attack any source of income. Effecting someones lively hood should be taken very seriously. Perhaps the lady commenting could have taken more time to form a response and reflect on what she saw instead of reacting. Maybe reached out to him directly for clarification, her intent was to get the word out to impact the comic as a whole and in turn directly effect his income. That said, anyone who called her names is just as bad if not worse.

    Now for when the reference to rape was indeed present in the comic it wasn’t to show you how “EVIL” a character was, but was to show and develop a character, MinMax. A character that hated “Monsters” by the definition of any “non-elf, human, or dwarf”, and idolized the “hero” that was doing this inhuman act. Once the “hero” bragged to MinMax about doing such a horrific act he instant attacked the “hero”.

    The “hero” had already been well developed as being extremely evil and did not need this reference of rape, but it did develop MinMax, made you somewhat like the “bad guy MinMax” and created a huge stir in the forums.

    So in short, it wasn’t to show how evil someone was.

    • Pinstripe Hourglass says:

      No, it was to show how noble and good hearted a man was. It’s still making a woman’s rape all about a man.

      • Just a reader says:

        This is twisting other peoples words. The plot at that point did not yet involve Kin as a main character. She enters the story afterwards,and of course she is deeply hurt. But at that point in time the real twistis the change in Minmax.
        P.s. we have allreadydiscussed this, l few ours ago AND 1full day before the fatal comments that sparked this controversy.lets not repeat ourselves.

        • Garlyn says:

          @Just a Reader: I didn’t realize my discussion over minmax was the triggering event. My main point (unfortunately glazed over) was the fact that the post was directly impacting someones lively hood.

      • Garlyn says:

        Still not right for trying to impact someones lively hood for a fictional event that never was never depicted in the comic.

        • Pinstripe Hourglass says:

          It is absolutely absurd to read a criticism of a comic as an “attack on his livelihood”, even if the crticism was wrong. Attack on his livelihood implies she was willfully and maliciously trying to damage Thunt’s ability to make a living wage, not spreading criticism of what (she thought) was a comic making light of rape.

          • Garlyn says:

            The intention does not excuse the possible result, enough legal precedence supports that.

          • Pinstripe Hourglass says:

            That doesn’t make sense. You said she was trying to impact his livelihood. If she didn’t intend to do that, she wasn’t trying to.

            I’m not saying she wasn’t wrong for jumping to conclusions so violently but to say she was intentionally trying to hurt Thunt’s livelihood is a little silly.

          • Mortal Sword says:

            It amazes me that there are people seriously, unironically advocating that any criticism of anything someone makes a living at should be considered libel/slander and therefore out of bounds. If this were true, there would be no product or service on the planet we’d be allowed to criticize.

            This is the most childish, ridiculous, intellectually vacant notion to come out of this entire comment war.

          • The Dude says:

            I don’t think calling someone a person who thinks rape is funny/saying someone is making rape jokes is a criticism, at least not in the way she worded it.

          • Nenya says:

            Pinstripe_ regarding “attack on livelihood”, unfortunately it’s not so clear whether she was or was not. Firstly he does get his livelihood from this comic, and second she made very select, highly interpretative comments that no one who’s read the comic could make with a straight face. So in a court of law, there’d be a debate on whether this was malicious or simply clueless.

      • mrpibbleton says:

        Seriously stop twisting people’s words around, just because in the two paragraphs about the snakewoman getting raped they mention developing minmax twice and the snakewoman or a female pronoun zero times does not mean the rape was a vehicle for developing minmax’s character, that’s just patently ridiculous!

  136. Lucy says:

    I was directed here via Goblins and have followed it as it beat the competitors. Oddly all my favorite webcomics where competing against each other, but I tried to vote for the ones I had read. When it came down to the final four I knew from experience I did not like MSPA. I read all of Gunnerkrigg Court in one night so I compare the comic. I liked it so much I voted for it in that round. Now Goblins and GC are competing against each other I have weighed their merits.

    GC has a set storyline that reminds me of some of my favorite graphic novels. I feel invested in the characters and the ensemble is not so large that I don’t hear from a character for weeks on end. I think it does lack adventure which is the only big thing that I don’t like.

    Goblins has a witty story, I was directed to it from http://www.willsaveworldforgold.com a 4th Ed. D&D comic (Which I found due to OOTS, connections, connections). So if you can’t already guess I am a D&D fan. The jokes were good and I like how the author deconstructs the normal D&D session. I will admit that that comic has made me cry on occasion. I love the characters which are fully fleshed out and the artwork, when I reread the comics I see details I never noticed before. My only gripe is the large ensemble. I feel like some characters get lost in the mix, and I don’t get to see them for ages.

    Thank you if you read this. I was trying to provide my opinion on both comics. If you do not agree, that is perfectly fine. If people all thought the same the world would be very boring. I am sorry if people feel any offense at this post, I do not mean to insult any comic. To the MSPA fans, I will try the comic again, maybe I will like it better on a second take.

    • fc says:

      I really agree with a lot that you’ve said! I was thinking about GC and why I felt something was lacking, and you’re exactly right, I think I crave a little more excitement. But then again true ability shines through making people sitting around talking to each other interesting. I also think the stylise look of GC loses a bit of facial expression? Does that make sense? It has improved a lot, but sometimes I think its a bit too nuanced, esp at the beginning.

      Goblins had a much more rocky start I think wrt the art, but that has really improved. Goblins suffers a bit from just the sheer amount in it, the large cast, the fairly large walls of text, but it still remains very clear. I think what wins it for me is that I get really invested in the Goblins characters and world.

      • Sienna says:

        I knew about Goblins a loooooooooooong time ago, but I didn’t start reading it until last night due to “Lack of D&D experience”. I waited until I knew more about D&D. If I didn’t, the whole story would have flew over my head. As an avid D&D basement dweller, I get all the inside jokes related to the comic.

        I read up until the recent update on the Goblins website, and now I am disappoint that I have to wait until the next update [Like every other webcomic out there. Update faster, VG cats! *Shakes fist*]

  137. fc says:

    …… HEY WHAT ABOUT THOSE COMICS EH, AREN’T THEY AWESOME??? Lets talk about that instead…

    • Tim says:

      I like Goblins a bit more probably because the action. I read both, but I only regularly check updates for Goblins. To me, its more enticing because the plot leaves more more suspense and the action keeps things more exciting. Court (shortening the name) created a more elaborate world with more mysteries and a lot more creativity, but the development, while interesting, is slower and less exciting. I read Court every few months after it receives a bulk of updates, because even if I like Goblins better, the author made a pretty neat world and I can’t wait for coyote to show up again.

      I might just be a sucker for a well made action/adventure story (I probably am in fact), but that’s my take on the two very well made comics.

    • Moose says:

      I like the level of detail early in GKC, I hope I’ll find the time to finish reading past the first 4 chapters, from what I saw the art in chapters 8-20 was very good indeed, although I’m not sold on the more anime-esque stylization I’ve seen in some of the recent pages I looked at. But yeah, if we talk about anything let’s discuss how awesome the comics are, or leave the comments alone. So FC, do you have any other favorite comics that you wish were in the competition?

      • Sienna says:

        The level of detail early on in GKC….. I’ll have to disagree. I’m more lost than anything and i’m on chapter three. The first chapter had potential in my eyes, however, they sent that potential off into the woods with a robot….. And was never seen again….. Why is it forbidden to leave school? Why is there some shadow needing help? What’s it’s relation to the main character? Why is every room in this “School” made specifically to house objects like chairs and desks? And why is the library filled with robot parts? So many plot points…. And chapter 2 just moved on like nothing happened >:[

        Does this story pull it together and get better later on GKC fans? Please respond DX

        • Anonymous says:

          You’ll see the robot and Shadow 2 soon and a plot comes together, don’t worry. :3 It does get better! Just keep on reading.

        • Tim says:

          It certainly does pull itself together, and does get better (both in art and in plot). However, the plot zigzags and takes large breaks and tangents. There are points where I love the story, and points where I trudge through it. I’d say continue reading until you reach coyote (my personal favorite in the area of plot development), after that, if you are not impressed, go ahead and drop the comic.

        • Mia says:

          The shadow and the robot come back later as recurrent characters, and the whole thing with the robots helps shed light on a plot point regarding the past of the school later on.

          Later found you find out -bit by bit- that the strange rules regarding the forest, the school, the robots and the shadows are linked to politics, and that those politics are covering up something that happened in the past.

          (Sorry for being so vague! I’m trying to avoid spoilers.)

          Yes, the “main” plot kind of comes and goes, because new characters and new plots are introduced, but they always are touched upon later.

          To give you an idea (don’t hold me to it, it’s just an estimate from memory), plot-points tend to cycle about every 3-6 chapters. At the end of the more mystery-packed chapters, you both get more answers and more questions, although sometimes the chapters end with a sense of wrapping up the event for good.

          There are also “breather” chapters, that aren’t directly connected to any point, but that advance the relationships between the characters and that shows us more of the setting.

        • Clammy says:

          GKC does not spoonfeed its audience. In most chapters more questions are raised than are answered. That does not mean you wont have answers. You will, you just dont know when and where they will come from.

          If you are looking for a simple, plot driven comic, you are not likely to find enjoyment in GKC. It is more whimsical, flight of imagination stuff, with very large emphasis on fantastic and very little on prosaic. Not everyone’s cup of tea, to be sure, but it excels at what it tries to do extremely well.

          • Robert says:

            ^ now this is how these threads should be no negativity just constructive and fair opinions and no bashing. there is hope for the internet yet

  138. TH says:

    It’s astounding how blindly Goblins fans still continue to believe that their preferred author is infallible, and that jokes in bad taste do not fade away after a half-arsed apology.

  139. Long Winded says:

    I wish people would stop the contentiousness. This was supposed to be a nice little contest. The prize is $100…not exactly the grand showcase of prizes. That sort of hints at the fact that this was supposed to be for fun, not taken so seriously. Lighten up, this is about enjoying webcomics. No matter who wins, you will still have your favorites, and so will everyone else. Things have gotten so bad that BOTH finalists have expressed at how saddened and ashamed they are of the whole situation, and of their fans. Congratulations, you ruined the whole thing for everyone. (Of course, I’m not speaking to everyone. Some have treated this contest how it was intended).

    As far as the rape controversy goes: Was the blogger in the wrong? Yes. I’d never read Goblins until recently through this contest, but I’m caught up (on both comics, btw), and what she claimed was on the page was not there, or implied.

    Should she have apologised? Yes, because she spent a lot of time badmouthing and slandering the comic and the creator and turned out to be badly mistaken. She should’ve had the courage and maturity to admit when she’s wrong and apologise to the artist, despite what the comic’s fans were doing. The artist didn’t do anything to her, the fans did.

    Does this mean we can discount what the fans did? No! The fans that threatened her should be ashamed. Once the artist heard what was going on, he expressed concern and disgust over their actions as well. (Read the twitter conversations people, he repeatedly asked her how he can help. After looking around a little, you can also see that he put messages telling them to stop in quite a few different places his fans frequent).

    What about the artist’s blog rant? This MIGHT have been in poor taste, except for one slight thing: none of this argument had ever been in private. The blogger made a public issue of it from the beginning, as was her right to do so. She believed something horrible was being done, so she acted. But it is hypocritical to say the instigator is allowed to be public and then say the responder can’t also be public with their side of the story. This is VERY similar to bullying someone and then telling them to keep their mouth shut about it. You may or may not believe the artist was a victim, but the moment he was told he couldn’t respond in the EXACT SAME WAY as the initiator you MADE him a victim.

    (This next part I felt I should write about as someone who knows very personally what the blogger has gone through)

    Despite the error of the original argument, does the webcomic indeed contain mention of rape? Yes, by a character that had been previously established to be evil. I’ve spent some time going through the pages that character is in/mentioned. Rape is arguably the worst of his crimes, but by no means his plot device/purpose.

    Is the webcomic using rape for humor? No. The last panel of a page doesn’t necessarily equate to the punchline of a comic. “Comics” also do not need to be funny/comical at all to be classified as comics. This is especially true of comics with long story arcs. This particulay part of the plot was actually a culmination of a really long character development involving the hero. It dealt with the assumptions of the hero that all humans are good and all monster races are evil. It’s about racism/xenophobia, if anything. By becoming aware of a fellow “good” person’s evil actions (which happened to be rape), the veil was removed from his eyes and he was shown how false his assumptions were.

    Does that mean that the catalyst for his realization had to be rape? Of course not. But art imitates life. All art SHOULD be the medium that we, as people, use to hold up as a microscope to our own actions and beliefs, as well as those of the society we live in. This sometimes means that the darker, more disturbing, shameful, even evil, aspects of our culture are put to light. This allows us to deal with it. I didn’t deal with my problem by hiding it away and never addressing it. And yes, it can be a very painful process. To vilify art because of the topic is not only a discredit to the art, it’s also a discredit to every single one of us that have had to live through it, trying to find something that keeps us going.

    Is the rape, in this instance, all about the man/hero? No. Any person that thinks an outside influence is the subject of an action is simply being foolish. Put this in another type of situation: If someone were dying of cancer, and that person’s friends got together and held a fundraiser to help the cancer patient, who is the subject? The cancer patient. Now, say the group of friends were the main characters in this story: Who/what is the cancer part of the plot about? It’s STILL the patient! That doesn’t change. Rape affects the victim! It isn’t about the one that saves the victim, if there is someone that saves them! Let’s face it, sometimes victims need saving. It doesn’t matter who it is that does it if we need it! If a woman saved the victim, like they did for me, that doesn’t make the rape about the woman hero. It’s still about the victim! The victim in the comic was saved by a man simply because the hero was male, nothing more.

    So what does this mean? It means that those of us that have been victimized are very sensitive to anything that appears to remind us of our trauma. We use words like “trigger” to distance ourselves from control what we are exposed to. We use words like “survivor” to give ourselves strength and to remind us that there is life beyond what happened. But, each day is a literal struggle to cope. Some days are easier than others, and those triggers that we perceive can evoke an extremely strong response out of us. I won’t try to speak for the blogger, but I feel she thought she saw something that was reprehensible: the trivializing of a major trauma in her, and others’, lives. It would be very easy to see something like that and have it trigger a response. Even though she was wrong, she was very brave for speaking up.

    But: this does not mean that she isn’t responsible for her actions. It is very easy for us to hide behind our victimization. It becomes a crutch that we use to excuse our actions…and we are allowed to get away with it because people have empathy for us. This is not “survivor” mentality, it is still being a victim. Survivors take responsibility for their actions, and they don’t allow others to make excuses for them. Wrongly accusing someone (or by extention, what they produce) deserves an apology. It does not deserve a comment saying that you were wrong, but it’s the fault of the artist for not being more clear. It also does not deserve the refusal of an apology based on the actions of others that aren’t actually affiliated with the artist. They may be his fans, but they don’t speak for him. Finally, just because you have a reason for doing something does not mean you have the excuse to do that thing. Reason is not excuse. Making excuses shows a distinct lack of maturity, and that you are stil acting like a victim. It is up to you to take responsibility for yourself. No one else can do it for you.

    If you made it this far, I applaud you. I apologise for taking up so much of your time with my words.

    • corn says:

      Bravo. That has to be the best take I’ve seen on the situation so far. I think, though, that perhaps the fact that Thunt put the situation on the front page of the webcomic, thereby letting other fans that might not have known anything about it know about her, was perhaps a bit of a dick move. However, having read everything she has said so far, I can really understand Thunt’s frustration.

    • Jared says:

      An excellent analysis!

    • Assatur says:

      A brilliant analysis.

      We should link this to everyone involved in this unfortunate incident.

    • A Dog says:

      Thank you for writing out mostly what I wanted to myself, but I would only have resorted to nit-picking way sooner. :)

      The lady has some problem with the word misogynist. I do not think it means what she think it means.

    • Mia says:

      This is a good comment and you should feel good.

  140. Slaeyne says:

    what I don’t get is why this is turned into such a huge ‘war’ to begin with? Nothing against comicmix but it is just one of many webcomic vote pages. It’s not going to change the authors life, the winner of which gets a whopping $50 more than 2nd place and nifty little banner saying they won. They’ve already gotten the attention of new possible fans for making it this far (albeit I’m not sure Thunt likes all the attention he got nor do I think Tom will gain any satisfaction if he wins due to this fiasco). People just need to relax and realize that regardless of the outcome of this, their favorite comic will still be there the next day and you’ll still enjoy it no matter what other people think.

    • Kay says:

      Thats exactly what I was wondering about its really surprising some of it might just be trolls. Though I have a feeling most of the readers aren’t actually participating here and maybe don’t even know about the poll, its just small fraction.

  141. Midanor says:

    all poison-darts aside – I really think it’s amazing how close the race remains! I hope goblins will take the lead another time today, though I believe that GKC will eventually win. but…when I looked, there never was a difference of more than a few hundred votes! remarkable :-)

  142. Crow says:

    To know what I was getting in to, I read a good chunk of Goblins (also because I find this competition was about discovering new webcomics, as I have throughout the entire competition). I can certainly understand why it’s made it as far as it has! While it may not be my cup of tea so far, I’m going to continue reading because, hey, why the heck not?

    I will admit that I would have voted for Gunnerkrigg anyway, as I have been this entire contest. I have been a fan of the comic for a few years now. It’s one of the few webcomics that caught me and kept me over the course of my internet time.

    I read some comments out of curiosity and… um… the people for GKC here that are being vocal here are very not like the GKC fans I know, and that upsets me – especially considering that these more vocal individuals are turning some people OFF to this wonderful comic. Please don’t let that turn you off, let your own experience tell you what to like! You don’t have to vote for GKC, but please don’t turn away the potential of fantastic story arcs and characters because a few people are vocal.
    I was like many of you when I first tried GC, and I tell others the same thing that my friends told me; it gets good around mid chapter 7-through-8. You get some interesting backstory, this looming question of the individual at the other side of the waters, character returns, etc. Chapters 10, 14, 20.. and then at 25 it goes uphill and doesn’t stop. The art improves over the course of the series, and the art that involves the ether/more spiritual plane is beyond words.

    I’m going to go back to reading Goblins, because, like I said, I like it it’s just that GKC is and has always been my top webcomic. As far as I can see, the artwork will and has improved and the story certainly isn’t bad, just different. Woop!

    • someone says:

      Those who attack Goblins are not doing so because they’re fans of Gunnerkrigg Court. They do so because they don’t like Goblins. If you lurk on the webcomic threads on, for example, Something Awful, you’ll see that it has been called “the adventures of lumpy turd people filled with jelly” looooooong before this contest was even announced.

      So Goblins has amassed a bit of a hatedom, and haters don’t like seeing what they hate get popular awards.

      However, there’s nothing aggressive against Goblins on the Gunnerkrigg forums.

      Myself, I don’t hate Goblins, but I think it should lose to Gunnerkrigg Court, and it should have lost to Order of the Stick and to Romantically Apocalyptic. However, the win against Looking For Group? That it was very well deserved! :)

  143. jer says:

    How does GKC feel about the recent burst of votes coming from the flaming rage coming from some non reader, who not only told outright lies about goblins, but then refused to retract those lies. Her tune’s changing with every new post, but she refuses to admit she’s wrong.

    • jer says:

      This sort of thing happened to Scott Kurtz of PVP. This nothing more than a ‘blogger’ setting up a scandal of epic proportions to drive traffic to their site. I’m cynical enough to think that this person has attempted the very same thing, but involving both webcomics as well. The bitter irony to me, is that the posts i’ve seen chronologically change her from a 20-something alt chick doing her own thing, to a 12 year old brat stubbornly refusing to admit they’re wrong.

    • Assatur says:

      Yes, I just went back to look at her newer blog updates.

      You can sympathize with her for her past experiences, but right now, it’s hard to feel any when you can literally feel the vitriol steaming off those posts after all those exchanges.

      • Just a Reader says:

        I was there just now as well, and I don’t think she has any intention of toning down or telling her commentators to do so. However, this is between Thunt and her. We should all back off. And since some of us mentioned the possibility of a law suit, i have to say that i realised Thunt has said nothing like that, and we should not try to speak on his behalf.

  144. Shanti says:

    Hmm, let’s imagine a world where this contest is just a simple contest and this comment section doesn’t exist, it’s easy if you try ;-)

    • Sleel says:

      I can also imagine a world where those who can’t stand to see harsh words anywhere cause they don’t want to be offended by anything contrive to gag people everywhere. No thanks, I prefer free expression. No one holding a gun to the heads of the bubble-wrapped forcing them to read comments they don’t like.

  145. Lilarn says:

    The blogger who did this pulled the trigger, so to speak, in a fit of self rightousness, did so while screaming ‘victim’ at any accusations of her own wrongdoing. Frankly, she is a terrible person who wraps herself in the certitude that she can do no wrong because she truly believes that no matter her actions, she’s a good person and thus all she does or says is good.

    You are not a good person, lady, and in your attempts to morally police the world, you’ve caused real harm to an innocent man, and have perminantly damanged his reputation. I don’t expect you to notice or even care what I’ve said here because you are full of the belief that you’ve done the world some kind of favor, but I consider you to be one of the most nasty people I’ve seen by posting what you did.

    I completely disagree with the poster who called her brave for speaking up. She is an emotionally and socially stunted person who seeks to cause others the same emotional malajustment she feels. What I see here is not bravery, but a disturbed person pushing whatever disorder she has on others.

    “If you lurk on the webcomic threads on, for example, Something Awful, you’ll see that it has been called…”

    Something Awful is a slowly dying site filled with self important aging posters who still think they matter in any real way anymore. It barely even qualifies as a humor site, and it’s forums haven’t been actually funny in years. What SA likes or doesn’t like as regards webcomics shouldn’t matter in the slightest.

    I honestly hope you don’t judge cultural material based on what a place like that thinks.

    • someone says:

      You don’t understand what I posted, so let me try again:

      People who attack the Goblins comic here or elsewhere do not attack it because they are fans of Gunnerkrigg Court.

      They attack Goblins because they hate Goblins.

      It doesn’t matter whether they’re goons or tumblrists or facebookers or from wherever else; the point is that they are not Gunnerkrigg Court fans attacking the competition.

  146. memyself says:

    I still won’t believe Goblins is getting this many votes legally but that’s just my opinion.

    Whatever the result, It’s been great exposure for Gunnerkrigg. Already seeing fanart and lots of praise from people reading it for the first time on tumblr. I’m not seeing any of that for Goblins though.

    • DV says:

      Yeah the ending burst of votes did seem odd. Anyway you’re right the outcome doesn’t really matter its just great that it brought more exposure to some great comics.

      • Fabulous Doctor says:

        I had never supported either comic in voting, instead abstaining as I like both comics – however, when the fan of GC decided to flip out, I put out a post on Tumblr to encourage people to vote for Goblins. I mean no disrespect to the author of GC, but the fact that instead of responding to it at all or telling his Fans not to do stuff like that, the artist has remained blissfully ignorant annoyed me.

        If his fans are attacking and publicly insulting his opponents in hopes of encouraging non-fans to vote for his comic, he should make it clear that no, he doesn’t support that. And he probably doesn’t from what I’ve seen he’s a nice guy, but he’s made no statement on it at all, not even a twitter post.

        I’ve lost respect for him as an author, for not being able to control his fans. If you go through the facebook section of the site’s comics, you’ll see that for every one Goblin’s fan saying they want it to beat Gunnerkrigg, you’ll get 2 GC fans who say things akin to “THIS COMIC IS BALLS AND HAS SHIT WRITING HOW IS IT EVEN HERE” for Goblins.

        His fandom needs to learn to be civil, before I’ll support him and it.

    • Just another Reader says:

      How do you expect people to take GK fans if you act like this?
      My comics is losing – the other guy must be cheating!
      … seriously?

      • Just a Reader says:

        Seriously now, things seem to calm down for an hour, and then hell breaks lose again? It is just trolling, by people who like flamewars, not comic fans.
        Moderators should have shut down the comments yesterday, if only to protect the reputation of their site.

      • memyself says:

        I could understand if these sudden bursts took place on the reset time. People are obviously going to vote as soon as they can.

        But this happens several times a day and always just enough to get over a certain margin of Gunnerkrigg. So forgive me if I smell bulldung.

    • Sleel says:

      Yeah, couldn’t possibly have anything to do with us liking his comic, seeing it being libeled by a mysandrynist nutjob and responding to said nutjobs attacks by voting back. Nope, gotta be haxs. Pathetic.

      • memyself says:

        The fact that you’re letting the actions of one nutjob fan influence your vote is pretty pathetic too, honestly.

        I don’t support her and a majority of the people I know think it was an underhanded slander tactic.

        • Fabulous Doctor says:

          The issue for some is that we were voting for neither as we liked both – but this ‘one nutjob’ has convinced us that the fandom of GKC doesn
          t have the common decency to even admit fully that even someone in their midst was wrong – I’ve been on tumblr all day, and every GKC post has been lampooning Thunt for being ‘unsympathetic and a bad artist who can’t get a point across’.

          In comparison, about one out of every ten of them goes ‘wow people in this fandom I love are crazy, but don’t let it bother you’.

          You guys are not being nice about it, nor are the fans calling her out on what is probably just an underhanded tactic.

          We aren’t being nice either, but atleast Thunt has the balls to man up and call out his asshole fans, and tell them to stop being dicks. meanwhile GKC’s writer has… uh. Said he probably doesn’t deserve the prize, and once told his fans that ‘it’s getting ugly’.

          He never once called out his fans like Thunt has. Just ‘oh man this is getting ugly’ type things. I respect him for wanting to donate it to charity, but that is not telling your fans that it’s not alright, that’s trying to make up for them.

          • finch says:

            Except Thunt’s response was petty and childish. He shouldn’t have made the initial blog post to begin with, but his “attempt” to de-fuse the fandom simply amounted to “this girl is too stupid to bother with” rather than “i’m sorry for what happened, please leave her alone”.
            It’s like Rush Limbaugh with the birth control fiasco. Saying “I’m sorry people got offended” does not mean you’ve apologized decently or owned up for your actions.
            Plus, Thunt is running a business here. Without the initial blog post, this wouldn’t have blown up the way it did. When you’re a professional, you have to deal with criticism against your work. He got criticized, and (perhaps unintentionally; it was a bad move either way) brought way more attention to it than he should have. This led to the girl being attacked, so he resorts to his petty second post.
            Don’t you think it might have been a decent idea to handle it quietly rather than blowing it way out of proportion? Whether he meant to or not, he should have had the sense to contact her in private instead of just drawing his entire fandom’s attention to the issue.

            I’m voting for Gunnerkrigg because I honestly think it’s a better comic, by the way, though I do think Thunt is acting like a snotty brat.

          • memyself says:

            Dude leave Tom out of it. He’s not the type to bark orders at his fanbase because like Thunt, he’s just a guy who draws a webcomic.

            He already said he didn’t like how the competition was turning out and that’s really as much as you can expect him to say.

          • Dusk9 says:


            1) THunt didn’t make the issue public – the girl who first started blogging about it (as well as posting here, on Twitter, and on tumblr) was the one who chucked it out in front of everyone. Everything he referenced in his blog was already out there for the world to look at – all he did was condense into one post for people who were confused about what was happening, while giving his side of it.
            2) People were already attacking the girl when Thunt made his first blog post – we know this because he specifically asks them to stop it. Unless you think that he can influence peoples actions in the past, it is physically impossible for his blog to have started the hate mail.
            3) What that girl posted was not critism of the comic – it was serious, slanderous accusations, designed specifically to drive people away from THunt’s comic. As you said, THunt’s running a business, and as such, it is entirely within his right to publically defend his livelihood from a malicious attack.

            I don’t think that there is an exact universal ‘reset time’. As far as I’m aware, once you vote from a specific computer, that IP is locked out of the voting for 24 hours. And the fact that lots of Goblins fans from all over the world (and they are from all over the world, just like Gunnerkrigg fans unfoubtably are), are finding themselves able to vote again, is not evidence of bot activity.
            Besides, even if I’m wrong about the ‘reset time’, its not like Goblins has been dominating the votes – both comics have been barely keeping up with each other. Stating that bots are the only way Goblins could be getting the same number of votes as GKC directly implies that there is absolutly no way that Goblins, a well respected comic whose author has been drawing full time for many years, could possibly have as many fans as GKC, whose author literally only just took the jump into focusing on the comic full time.

            Please, just stop this. Both of you. Your arguments and ‘opinions’ are dead and buried – don’t start bringing them back up for the sake of ‘being right’. Let this entire mess rest in peace.


          • memyself says:

            You do realize there are ways to change your IP, right? If you have a dynamic IP, you could just disconnect, reconnect, vote again and repeat.

            Maybe that’s not happening here but Sleel’s comments has made it clear that this has turned into a campaign against that one girl for what she said about Thunt.

            I think the Goblins side should stop focusing on her so damn much.

        • Sleel says:

          Didn’t influence my vote. Just sent me back for another vote when I read the blog post about it. I vote for who I like, not for whom some smart ass says I should. Nor do I presume if my team lost it was because of cheating. So bite me, and go back to molesting your high horse.

      • finch says:

        Someone who thinks misandry is a thing. Yay.

        • Just another Reader says:

          Regarding your previous comment: Sure, vote for whatever comics you like more. No one has a problem with that.
          Ah, but then you proceed to insult the author personally, not just in regard to his work. If you followed your own comments, you should have just ignored what was posted, instead of coming on here and insulting the author.
          The truth is, you don’t want to shut up, you want everyone opposing you to shut up, so you can have last word and call people names.
          And since you seem to imply that calling people names is in fact, not acting like a ‘snotty brat’ – allow me to say: you sir, are an ignorant malevolent and incredibly arrogant person.

          • finch says:

            I’m female, thanks.
            As I mentioned before: Thunt is /running a business/. He could have avoided all the bad publicity by taking the high road. He didn’t. He still isn’t. He is not acting professionally. Thank you for completely missing my point.

  147. Sleel says:

    Yay. Good to see Goblins wasn’t taken down by the ramblings of a mysandrynist projecting her bias onto a comic.

  148. fc says:

    I was really glad to see people were starting to discuss the comic again only to go back into a fight over alleged cheating?! Its unbelievable and actually sad. I think pointing fingers is absolutely uncalled for and should be stopped. Now. It has always been a close fight and I see nothing wrong with either side overtaking the other.

    Again though, I would like to appeal to everyone not to boycott the comics for their fans. I’m very sure neither of the authors are saying “THE OTHER GUY IS CHEATING” so its just the opinion of a few. Loving both comics isn’t mutually exclusive. Support online comics and enjoy them at the same time. (:

    • Clammy says:

      Boycott the comic because on the fans is uncalled for, sure, but judging the comic based on the fan’s behavior is fair game. After all, the type of person that likes a particular form of entertainment probably matches that type of entertainment, and that attitude comes through in their post.

      If a comic’s appeal is humor and wit, its fan will come out as humorous or witty. If it is a complex puzzle-like series of details, that is what the fans will sound like. If it is science or computers, the fans will sound like science or computer geeks. If it relies on crude shock value humor, the fans would be crude and shocking. And if it is constant violence, fights and combat, the fans will come out violent and combative.

      I think we all know which strips (and which fans) would be good examples of the above attitudes.

      • Just a Reader says:

        If what you are implying were true i would feel offended. I do not. I feel tired and frustrated. You are close to indiscriminatingly insulting other participants in this forum. It is a breach of nettiquette, and may result at flaming the conversation. Please refrain.

  149. A Crow says:



  150. Keij Carter says:

    DNDers are just jelly that Shadowrun is better

  151. Sarah says:

    I hadn’t been to comicmix.com before this tournament, and I’ve learned a few things. I learned about a couple of cool webcomics that I wouldn’t have read otherwise, which is great. I also learned that I don’t ever need to come back to comicmix, since I am not a fan of trolling, vitriol, insanity and poorly moderated comment sections. Way to keep up the level of discourse! I feel bad for the authors (and sane fans) of both comics – they were entered in a contest and in spite of winning 1st & 2nd prize, they end up feeling terrible about the whole thing.

    • spread the love not the hate says:

      I agree. i have learned of 1/2 dozen comics that are fantastic,
      but i will not be returning to this website. not even if they do this tourny again next year.

    • Matt says:

      I’d cut comicmix some slack. This contest has gone viral, and they couldn’t have been prepared for the massive turnout. I don’t think the site really has the manpower or resources to deal with this kind of explosion, but I’m guessing with the growth they get out of this event, that won’t be a problem for long. Myself, I’m impressed with the site, and I’ll be continuing to visit after the tournament has concluded.

  152. Heh says:

    reposting if you guys don’t get it already.

    Glenn Hauman
    17 hours ago

    Go away for a holiday with the family, and the comments threads explode.

    People: please start dialing down the rhetoric and the volume. If it persists, we will start disemvoweling comments, then proceed onward to banning commentors and subtracting points from the totals as penalties.

    Fair warning. Happy Easter.

    • Just a Reader says:

      I would feel better if he were reposting it himself. There is a limit to how much a forum can self-regulate. Terminating the discussion, if possible, would be the way to go now. There is no point in this. I only intend to see this through for Thunt’s shake, and then i ‘ m never coming back.

      • Heh says:

        Not alot of people have seen it and he’s probably giving it a day before acting. Either way, People need to be warned on what they say could implicate their favorite comic in the standing. Now it could backlash on the guy and have other “pretenders” to be fans of the other comic just so they can push the numbers, but maybe votes can be deleted via the IP of the commenter themselves. Who knows, but this will be interesting as hell if he goes through with it.

  153. Jon Piu says:

    Wow, the amount of voting is massive!

  154. Vilding1 says:

    Forgetting the drama queenery for a minute, this is a tough, tough call.
    I really like both comics. Thunt gets a bonus for the live feed, but also a reduction for the somewhat unreliable update schedule… Both comics are really good, well drawn, and with a solid story.

  1. April 6, 2012

    […] which if you wish and are familiar with the comics, you can take part in (or at least follow) here. Neither are comics that I myself have reviewed, but they’re both comics I’ve […]

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    […] Click here to vote on GC vc GC and see the current results! […]

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    […] By the way, the contest of Goblins vs GKC is still going until Monday night. You can still vote! (but serously, GKC really is an amazing comic. Check it out) […]

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  7. October 1, 2012

    […] Mix March Madness 2012 Webcomics Tournament Finals: Gunnerkrigg Court vs. Goblins! (comicmix.com) FacebookTwitterMoreDiggRedditStumbleUponTumblrPinterestLinkedIn […]