EXCLUSIVE: Torchwood picked up for another season by BBC

Glenn Hauman

Glenn is VP of Production at ComicMix. He has written Star Trek and X-Men stories and worked for DC Comics, Simon & Schuster, Random House, arrogant/MGMS and Apple Comics. He's also what happens when a Young Turk of publishing gets old.

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554 Responses

  1. Anonymous says:

    No way. :( It's not going to be Torchwood anymore. No matter how good the ratings were for Children of Earth, it wasn't Torchwood, it was a political sci-fi thriller that used some characters from Torchwood. And then smashed them with a hammer and shattered them into tiny little pieces.Not to mention a show that was repeatedly pushed to the GLBT-etc crowd playing into the Dead Gays On TV trope.

  2. Anonymous says:

    Not worth it without Ianto, Tosh or Owen.

  3. Anonymous says:

    Oh, thank GOODNESS. Hopefully they'll let some more team members live. Because, dewd.

  4. Ruby Givens says:

    Don't care. No desire to watch the Jack and Gwen show.No Ianto in Series 4, no me.

    • Anonymous says:

      It wasn't the Ianto show either..Anyway, I look forward to seeing where they'll go from here…

      • Anonymous says:

        It was the Jack/Ianto show for many people. CoE was a pure tortue, no more torchwood-torture for me!

        • Anonymous says:

          No tall fans of the show are gay and need to have their heroes in a gay relationship.

          • Anonymous says:

            That isn't true but Ianto was in many ways just a plot point, i would like to see his return, but it isn't something I would stop watching Torchwood over.

          • Anonymous says:

            Jack and Ianto's relationship never seem to fit to me, RTD was trying too hard. The chemistry between Gwen and Jack is what makes the show and was much more believable.

          • Anonymous says:

            theres nothing wrong with someone being gay

        • Anonymous says:

          It *WAS* actually the Jack and Gwen show, from the beginning. Ianto, Owen and Toshiko were always supporting characters. Jack is the focus; Gwen humanizes Jack.

          • Anonymous says:

            i totally agree. as much as i loved ianto torchwood will still be torchwood whoever it has in it. jack and gwen will always be the main characters for me no matter whether they stay or go. ill always be a torchwood fan no matter what! :)

      • dolgirl says:

        I am also looking forward to a new season of torchwood I cant wait to see how they fit Gwens pregnacy into the whole thing and if lois will be part of the team and Reese also I can t wait

    • Anonymous says:

      Ianto Could Come Alive Again… You Never Know – Torchwood Does These Things.

      • Anonymous says:

        They have already said that there will be no more "Back from the dead" with Jack being the sole exception to that. No more gloves. They did that.I am very much looking forward to the new season. I imagine that Lois will make the team as she was such a heavy part of CoE, but you never know. Still, since Eve is also pregers, they will either have to work around her or not start filming until 2010. And Ianto or no, Jack is Da Man….

        • Lee Houston, Junior says:

          I think the producers have enough story sense to have Gwen already delivered the baby and experience the first months of being a new mother before Season 4 starts.

        • mike weber says:

          Lois was originally Martha Jones, but Agyeman committed to another show. When she first walked in in Ep 1, i said to myself "Has Martha changed her hair-do?"

      • Sugarblue says:

        Actually Ianto can't come back because the others were brought back by the glove(s).And both the gloves had been destroyed in the late series 1 also in series 2 plus in children of earth their base was blown up so everything they had was gone with the base.Which is a shame as I got so use to that base but they'll have to get a new one…

        • Anonymous says:

          So in other words, you're saying that Davies and the rest of them aren't talented or creative enough to bring him back, not even as flashbacks or nightmares for Jack? Hm… I've heard many people say that the only GOOD reason to kill off a major character is because there's no more to say about them. Yet Davies gave us lots of tidbits about Ianto's life and never even attempted to follow up. If you ask me (and if you don't, so what) Davies is too busy trying to cram Gwen down our throats as the main and only reason to watch Torchwood. Perhaps if the 'true' fans of Torchwood would not be so nasty to the NICE Ianto fans (I have never nor will I EVER send Moran or Davies or anyone nasty letters) then I would tune in to series 4. But the 'true' fans have ruined a show for me even more than the terrible, predictable plot and the online spoilers that were too easy to find.

          • Torchwood Fan says:

            I also hope they find a way to bring Ianto back even if it's just for one or two episodes. Even if Ianto's not in it Im still going to watch it.

    • Anonymous says:

      Amen to that. Just could never wrap my head around the whole Gwen thing. She's a good character, but have no interest in watching a show thats all Gwen, all the time.

    • Anonymous says:

      As much as I love the Jack/Ianto relationship. It isn't our call. I would LOVE to see it return and to see more depth into it, but if it doesn't, then that is something that we all have to get over.

    • Anonymous says:

      Yeah, they seemed to get on a roll killing off characters and it just lost interest for me. There was so much more that could have be done with the Ianto/Jack story line – and seriously – killing his grandkid? Hell, I've seen Jack try harder for the fishhead martians. Disappointing. The whole "tragic-one-tear-down-cheek" bit is getting old.

    • Anonymous says:

      Oh grow up, the Jack and Gwen show?! Torchwood has always been about Jack and Gwen, not in a releationshippy way, but it was Gwen's show. It wasn't Ianto's show, or anyone's show, but it was shown through Gwen's eyes. But, if you want to miss out on quality TV, you go right ahead. Let me know how that goes.

  5. Anonymous says:

    After Russell T Davies comments to Ausiello, I've decided to take his advise and watch Supernatural next season instead of Torchwood! Thanks, Mr Davies for helping me pick my new television viewing habits, one that Torchwood will not be apart of.

  6. Jippy says:

    Why this be interesting to watch 3 news members of the team. I watch Gwen with the baby and Rhys, the best couple, Jack who killed his grandson and he go find a new boyfriend or girlfriend (Or Gwen). No sorry, I don't care for the new season 4. I won't watch this new season.

  7. Anonymous says:

    I don't think the season 4 should be interesting. 3 new team members, Gwen Rhys and a baby, Jack with another boyfriend or girlfriend (and don't remember Ianto because they not mentionned him on season 4). No me too, no Ianto, no season 4 for me.

    • Jackie Stone says:

      Ha! I'm not the only one who thinks Jack would forget Ianto. One of the key reasons no Series 4 for me.

      • Doc's Gonna Hel says:

        Same here! Jack's just going to forget Ianto (even though, in my mind, truly loved him, even more than Estelle). If Ianto's not coming back (or Jack even remembering him), I'm out. I just can't take all of the death. Killing off most of the cast in around 5 episodes is not a good idea.

  8. veronica says:

    Don't care. Without Ianto not Torchwood for me.

  9. Natalie says:

    I'm happy for the cast and crew, but unfortunately I won't be watching. Why bother getting all emotionally invested in another team when they'll all likely be dead by the end of the season? my interest in this show died with Ianto. If death-to-all is gonna be the formula for the show then it's just not for me.

    • Adam-Troy Castro says:

      Natalie, "Why bother getting all emotionally invested in another team when they'll all likely be dead by the end of the season?" Because stories that matter matter. If you go in knowing that everybody you care about's going make it and that only the red shirts are going to die, then suspense becomes a joke (as it pretty much did, on the original STAR TREK, a joke that lives in your understanding of what I mean by red shirt). We all emotionally invest in movies of only two hours or less where characters we care about will not make it. A TV series about deadly forces where the main characters are all untouchable is a lesser thing. Prove otherwise and you have something that plays for keeps. CSI began by telling the story of a likeable protagonist who died at the end of the very first episode. And one of the things I like about LOST is that *nobody's* survival, not even the hero's, is guaranteed. And that's just as compelling in TORCHWOOD. These folks are on the front line. They're fighting for us. We are moved to love them and to worry about them. And they're actually in danger of not making it.And Kiri, as far as "disrespecting the fans" — excuse me, Russell Davies is under no obligation whatsoever to respect the fans. Respect the fans and you get a show written by them, that cozies to them, that never disturbs them. You get something that feeds on in-jokes and becomes self-cannibalistic, as has happened to other franchises before this one. His duty, and the duty of his fellow writers, is to respect the story above all.

      • GeneWallace says:

        I think Kiri is talking about RTD's latest interview with Auseillo and his remarks on TW, it's fans, and a passing referrance to Supernatural. Honestly, its not Russel's most flattering moment.

        • Adam-Troy Castro says:

          Just read the interview and see no problem with it. "If you can't take drama, read poetry. Poetry's great." Exactly. If you want a show where everybody you love hangs out together, deals with issues of no lasting effect, and is left joking and untouched at the end, fine: there are plenty of shows like that, and many of them are called sitcoms. But people get *hurt* in drama, some of them irrevocably; and in thrillers, even more so. If you're so bent out of shape by the death of a character you like that you think it amounts to a crime against the audience, then you honestly haven't seen enough drama to understand what it is.

          • Anonymous says:

            If you're so bent out of shape by the death of a character you like that you think it amounts to a crime against the audience, then you honestly haven't seen enough drama to understand what it is. You sound just like RTD, snide and superior.

          • Adam-Troy Castro says:

            The specific statement I reacted to wasn't, "Torchwood handled this particular death stupidly," or "This was the only character I liked, therefore I'm no longer watching," or, "This story was bad," or "Russell Davies is an asshole," or even, "It's not as good as Macbeth," which, by the way, it isn't.The statement was, "Why would I watch {tv show, drama} and get attached to the characters if they could get killed at any given time?"And if that's the statement, then it does indeed show a fundamental avoidance, in this case — I won't say ignorance, here — of what drama is.Characters exist so they can reveal themselves when things happen to them. Those things do include tragic deaths, but they also include perennial loserdom, like what happens to Alan on TWO AND A HALF MEN. I feel for that poor shlub and want happiness for him; I recognize that the comedy lies in his misfortunes continuing. Were I to complain to creator Chuck Lorre about being mean to that guy, I would be missing the point, badly.We all get involved with continuing characters. We all love them and we want good things to happen to them. I have, myself, dropped series (and not just TV series, but book series and movie and comic book series) based on disappointment on what was being done with them. That's an aesthetic judgment and I have no problem with it. But when you start complaining, in principle, , IN PRINCIPLE, about bad things happening to characters you like, about them dying when you would prefer them them to live, calling the creators of those characters arrogant for not abiding by your preferences, then, yes, absolutely, your understanding of the principle is incorrect. Creators who make dramatic decisions based on their own narrative dictates and not yours are not being "arrogant." Unless you want your characters playing house, it is their job to tease you with *unhappy* developments and make you hope for better.Is that snide and superior of me? Do you feel that CHILDREN OF EARTH betrayed you by killing off characters you like? Fine. The solution's simple. Create your own characters, gain your own audience, and leave every single development up to audience fiat. That's all you have to do. You can even make everything bright and sunny and happy, if you prefer; there's a market for such things. But Russll Davies, James Moran, and so on, are not arrogant for refusing to be the audience's obedient bitches. Far from it. They're fulfilling their job description.

          • clavicular says:

            I have to say that although I agree completely with your point about character death being a positive thing for a number of reasons (while recognising that shows like that may not be for everyone), I don't really agree that creators don't have to show respect for their fans, and I don't agree that drama has only one purpose and people will watch it for only one reason. I'll apologise in advance for the length of this thing – I tend to go on for ages when I get on a roll. I respect (and agree with!) your opinion that Torchwood is still a good show, but I don't agree with your apparent belief that no one else is allowed to think differently.It upsets me when people say that they won't be continuing to watch Torchwood because of the deaths in s2 and s3, because for me s3 really brought the franchise back to life. I felt like the show had been degrading in s2 but the quality of s3 (leaving aside any dissatisfaction people may have had with events in it) was undeniably a step up from what we've seen. It was also a quite different show and much darker show, so I understand people being disappointed with the plot as well as the deaths. Even though I loved it without reservations, I understand why people were upset.To say that a creator is under no obligation to respect their fans is frankly ridiculous. Without their fans they've got nothing. They may have a fantastic story to tell, but if no one wants to hear it then – particularly in a medium like television – it's probably not going to have the opportunity to be told. This doesn't mean you should only write what other people want to see, but at least treat the fans' opinions as worthwhile and valid. Not everyone is going to like the same things, and just because someone is upset by the direction a show has gone in doesn't mean their opinion is invalid because they don't "get" what you're trying to do. Maybe you, as a creator, really are at fault. More often, people just have different ideas on where they would like the story to go. By "respect your fans" I don't mean "write only what they want", I mean "acknowledge that what you've done upsets them, rather than dismissing it as missing the point"I don't think it's fair to say that RTD has no obligation to his fans, and then imply that his fans have an obligation to him. Creators aren't under any obligation to cater to their fans, but I think it's only fair that they treat their fans' opinions with respect. Given the outcry against this season, I can understand the creators feeling defensive, but keep in mind that they've written this character that people have fallen in love with, and then killed him. Fans are, essentially, in mourning, and if RTD has any respect for his own creation then he ought to respect that. If the writer doesn't have any obligations to the fans then the fans have no obligation to the writers. So if we agree that the writer should be able to write whatever they want (and I do definitely believe that) then their audience's reaction to it is valid, whatever that reaction is, and if the audience chooses not to watch, well, that's the risk the writer took. You, personally, might like this aspect of drama. Other people watch for different reasons, and just because your reason for watching is different to theirs doesn't make it invalid. If the show no longer caters to their reason for watching, then why should they continue to watch it? You might think they're missing the "point" of the show or the genre, but the truth is that they take something different out of the genre to what you do. Don't say that if I don't like character death I shouldn't watch this type of drama. I watch sci-fi drama because I like the elements of character development and relationships that are brought out by the intense situations inherent in these shows. Death is, obviously, always a potential element of that. I understand that, but I watch it for the characters, and if the characters I am invested in die, I have no reason to continue watching the show. This isn't a judgment on the genre or the show, it's merely me recognising that the show I'm watching doesn't bring to it the things that I want in a sci-fi drama any more. In this specific case, there are other things about Torchwood that I enjoy, so I will continue watching for those things. Other people aren't hooked by anything else in the show, and they'll stop watching. Both of these reactions are valid. It seems to me you value plot line above character interaction. Fair enough. But if you think that everyone else has to believe this as well, and if they don't then they're missing the point of "drama", it shows an unhealthy sense of elitism and demonstrates the same arrogance that you're denouncing in the people who no longer want to watch the show because it no longer caters to them.Most of the comments – including those you specifically replied to – aren't casting value judgments on the creators. Natalie didn't say "This is no longer a good show," or "It was [bad/wrong/a betrayal] for RTD to kill Ianto." She said "it's just not for me." Similarly, GeneWallace said "it comes off very arrogant to quantify criticism under such a generalization" which is a statement on RTD's reaction to the fans reactions. It's not a morality judgment about what RTD did with the actual story. And I'm not really sure why you're disagreeing with the Anonymous you're replying to here – I think you may have misunderstood. My reading of that comment was that it was reiterating a number of things you had already said. But in any case, the point most people seem to be making is, why the hell would you watch a show you don't like any more?

          • Adam-Troy Castro says:

            Never said anybody couldn't vote with their feet (or remote controls). That's a given.And perhaps the best way of putting the principle I'm talking about is, storytellers need to demonstrate a certain *healthy* degree of disrespect for their audience, because the audience is not in charge.

          • clavicular says:

            Yeah, I guess I get what you mean about not being a slave to what your audience wants. I thought the most recent season of Torchwood was amazing so if that's RTD ignoring his audience then I've got no problem with it. But in a way the audience IS in charge, because if you don't get the fans then you're not going to get the money to continue telling your story. (I'm not saying that's an issue here – obviously the show was a success and I'm glad to hear there will be a 4th season)So, yeah, I liked what he did, but TW has changed a lot and I can understand people who didn't. I don't blame them for being upset or feeling betrayed. And while the sense of entitlement some people display can be annoying, when you get people emotionally invested in the characters you have to expect heartbreak when you kill them or otherwise treat them badly. Killing off over half the core cast within a couple of episodes is pretty damn ruthless. It's funny; I tend to respect creators who are able to kill off their characters and make me feel no one is safe but I don't always like them for it. Most of the stories I have absolutely loved have done this, but you do have to be careful about it. I mean, when you write fiction you want to make it feel real to the audience, but sometimes to do that you have to create a world that stretches reality a bit. For a world to feel real, you have to create people that feel real, and get your audience to invest in them. If you kill the people that you've had your audience invest in too often, your audience will disengage from the other characters to protect themselves from getting hurt again and your world won't feel that real. On the other side of the coin, if you don't ever kill characters then you get the problem that you were talking about above, where the tension feels fake because you don't really believe anyone's going to go. Maybe the solution is that if you write tension really well you can get away with not killing as many characters, and if you write characters really well (and have lots of characters) you can get a way with killing more, because people will invest in them even knowing they might go. Although the better you write your characters, the more upset people are gonna be when you kill them, so who knows? I do find I'm more inclined to worry about new or minor characters. I can get to know and invest in characters pretty quickly if they're done just right, but I know minor characters aren't safe. This often leads to much distress on my part. …Don't mind me, I'm just thinking aloud here. XD

          • Adam-Troy Castro says:

            There's another factor: the inherent contract of the kind of story this is.When Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Sulu, and some guy you've never seen before beam down to a planet, the contract with the audience is that the guy you've never seen before is gonna die to show you the terrible fate that threatens the folks you care about. When a bunch of generic teenagers find themselves trapped in a house with a masked killer, the contract with the audience is that nobody's safe and there may not be any survivors, though you're hoping for at least one. And so on.Sometimes this rule can be broken brilliantly. There's a potboiler thriller called DEEP BLUE SEA with Samuel L. Jackson and a bunch of folks who were (then) unknowns; they find themselves trapped in an enclosed space being stalked by a menace and, just when things are at the bleakest, the one star of the group, Jackson, starts to deliver an angry, Oscar-moment pep talk about the importance of pulling together. He gets bitten in half just as he reaches a crescendo. The theatre audience gasps: did we just see that? Did we just lose the star? After a few seconds, people applaud in appreciation. Because, yes, we did just lose the star. The contract's been broken. We can't second-guess this one.In the case of LOST: major cast members die within the first season. They continue to die in subsequent seasons. We know that nobody, not even the top stars, is safe. (Ditto, by the way, with Harry Potter.)In the case of TORCHWOOD in particular…I think the show's been very upfront about its contract since day one. We are introduced to a past Torchwood agent who went bad; we are shown that Torchwood can't always hope for a happy ending, and that people we want them to save, aren't always saved; we see that some of the situations they deal with leave lasting psychological repercussions; one character become a walking dead man with no happy magical cure in sight. The people in Torchwood live in a malevolent universe that can turn on them at any time. They are hanging on by their fingernails defying a cosmos that wants to eat them. The only one we KNOW will survive is Jack, because we have seen his ultimate fate if we watch DR. WHO — but the rest are fair game. It can be said, then, that far from disrespecting his audience, Russell T. Davies has respected them enough to play by the rules he set up in the first place.

          • tiggy says:

            I know I've come to this debate a little late, but I just wanted to raise two quick points.On the subject of drama: I find the best deaths in fiction are when they serve to move the story forward, or there is a very realistic reason for that person to have died. I don't find Ianto's death to have either of those qualities, and yes, this is just my own opinion. What merit did it have? It didn't galvanize Jack to action; if I recall correctly it near broke him! As for dying realistically or not, I suppose that really is up to interpretation. I still can't get over the plot holes in those scenes with the virus/poison release. I would think, however, that they could have come up with a less cliched way to kill him off. Dying in his love's arms, saying out loud the words he never had the courage to say before, while Jack clutched him unto his bosom? I think I could have swallowed that scene if Jack had just said I love you back, even if he hadn't meant the words. (Who-Verse Hero not saying 'I love you' when he knows he will never see his love again? Been there, done that.). That would have broke the cliche some.Second point: From a lot of the points raised above, I gather the point some (at least) are trying to make is that while no writer or producer should be catering to their fans, nor do they have to look down their noses at us. As one person has put it, some of us are in 'mourning'. You don't need to be thumbing your noses at us. From interview snippets I've seen or read, and from first hand accounts from these snubbed fans, I believe that RTD has no respect for us whatsoever. And who said that having some respect, and treating fans as people WITH FEELINGS translates into being the fan's bitches anyway? Here I thought it was basic human decency.To wrap this up, I don't think that the writer's should do whatever fans want, and I don't think anyone needs their noses rubbed in the fact that they have no say in how a story is run, and that the creator thinks that because we're fans we should just lay back and think of Torchwood.One last point (sorry, I lied!): I will probably not be watching S4. Not because Ianto is dead (not wholly, at least), but because without Burn Gorman, Naoko Mori, and Gareth David-Lloyd (and John Barrowman?) I do not think the stories are good enough to stand on their own. Again, my personal opinion, is that it was these actor's AMAZING talent that pulled me along this crazy ride. Plot-hole? What plot-hole? Owen's alive, to save everyone from death! I get to see Burn make Owen look death in the eye, and come out more broken-strong because of it. The jury is out on this one. Are they good enough, nay lucky enough, to gather such talent again? Something tells me no, but I will have patience and see.

          • Anonymous says:

            >I find the best deaths in fiction are when they serve to move the >story forward, or there is a very realistic reason for that person >to have died. I don't find Ianto's death to have either of those >qualities, and yes, this is just my own opinion. What merit did it have? It >didn't galvanize Jack to action; if I recall correctly it near broke him!You just answered your own question. The major purpose of Ianto's death is exactly that: it nearly broke Jack. Ianto's death is the first thing to nearly break him since he lost his brother 150 years ago. Virtually unflappable Capt. Jack Harkness finally reached a breaking point, and almost went over the edge (technically I suppose one could say he did go over the edge given CoE's ending). Ianto's death moves the story forward and moves along Jack's character development. It also creates a hole in the team that can be filled by Lois (who basically has the same skill set and personality as Ianto and whom RTD effectively set up to join the team; having two procurers is rather pointless in a 3-5 person team).As far as character deaths overall . . . yes, this is an element of good drama and good storytelling. But, coming from an "old school" tabletop gaming background, one of the early rules of game mastering (GMing) is that every now and then you need to kill off a player character (PC) to put the fear of god/GM into the players (or viewers in this case). Case in point, season five of Babylon 5 which saw Marcus Cole killed and Susan Ivanova killed, revived, and then written out of the show, two of the most popular characters in the show (along with Vir Cotto and Lennier), gone in one episode. J. Michael Straczinski caught a lot of flack over that one, but the show is stronger (and still one of the top five sci-fi shows ever) because of the decision.

          • Anonymous says:

            Thank you, I couldn't say it better. The stories that were in Torchwood were great and I loved watching the show, it was entertaining, but it's hard for me to watch the show if there are no more characters that I care about and I don't know if I can care about any new characters with how fast they are killed off. It's tiring to watch.I'm not angry at Russel T Davis because he's not yielding to his fans and letting them control the show, I'm not happy with him because of the way he dismisses his fans like they don't matter. Like their loyalty in watching his show doesn't matter and their investment in his show and characters don't matter. So if he doesn't care about his fans, why should I care about him and his work?

          • Anonymous says:

            great intelligent comments, Adam-Troy. I agree with all you're saying. Anyway, I LUUURRVEEEEEEEEEE CoE . Sad Ianto's dead etc. But yes, it's "a" drama. And if people don't like "drama", then yes, .. you know the rest..I also don't think Russell T Davies owes it to anyone to keep the characters alive. Perhaps yes, commercially, it's risky – to lose audience etc. But this artistic integrity that Russell seems to demonstrate makes me appreciate him. Thanks for all your comments in here. They are very good indeed.

          • Anonymous says:

            Ummm…Drama isn't all about killing off characters. A death of character doesn't really mean drama. If I don't like the death of the character, does not mean I don't like drama and I don't understand it. It just means that I invested in the character and I'm upset that they were killed off.

          • GeneWallace says:

            I think you're in the same unfortunate boat as Russel by dismissing any dissatisfaction with COE as dissatisfaction with drama. COE does not equal the epitome of 'DRAMA' and it comes off very arrogant to quantify criticism under such a generalization.Somone else stated it better than I: "…[RTD wrote: I'm glad they're typing because they're that involved. But if you can't handle drama you shouldn't watch it.] To which I would argue – even though I thought Torchwood Children of Earth was great – that being able to handle drama isn't the issue: the issue is enjoying it or not enjoying it. They could hate Torchwood and still love Macbeth. Don't fob responsibility for the story so glibly, Davies: it isn't "drama" they didn't like, it's the story you wrote they object to…"Which was a fantastic analogy for the originator to make, conisdering how much I loathe Rome & Juliet, for it being driven by adolescent melodrama and constant contrivance, and yet I still enjoy other works of Shakespeare. IMO, its not unreasonable for RTD to maintain his creative autonomy outside of fanservice and to be adamant to the press about that type of integrity to his writing, but his comments in the article are very egotistical and instigating, when its this very loyal fanbase that gave the show its opportunity to continue and succeed. Because let's face it, Torchwood is no piece of Shakespeare, not that I need it to be, but that just underscores that there was some fine things within the show that allowed audiences to overlook its flaws. RTD is entitled to say what he wants, I'm just not certain this was good business sense now that there's a S4. We'll just have to wait and see.

          • Elizabeth says:

            So many interesting comments, and with so much passion! It is clear, like the recent season or no, it matters to a lot of people.I am still dazed by CoE. I'm not going to get into rating the importance of the script or acting when compared with Sakespeare or something called "Lost," but I will say CoE grabbed me, sucked me in, beat me up and when I was spit out I realized that I cared about Ianto (who I would have said I didn't care about before – not the actor, the role), I cared about the contributions of the other actors (whose characters are now gone), and Gwen and certainly Captain Jack. Sure hope S4 is coming and that the great writing continues! As for Jack, guess it wouldn't be worthwhile without him…REALLY. Don't think a "regeneration" into another leader for Torchwood would work. Keep Jack and John Barrowman going, what he's done with the role is amazing and entertaining!

      • Anonymous says:

        THIS. Yes.

      • mike weber says:

        And Kiri, as far as "disrespecting the fans" — excuse me, Russell Davies is under no obligation whatsoever to respect the fans. Respect the fans and you get a show written by them, that cozies to them, that never disturbs them. You get something that feeds on in-jokes and becomes self-cannibalistic, as has happened to other franchises before this one. His duty, and the duty of his fellow writers, is to respect the story above all.Possibly the term you need is "fanservice".

    • Gary LaPointe says:

      Last time I checked, "death to all", was the formula for real life.I'll be watching any and all Torchwood followups until I get bored. (Just like life!)http://GarySaid.com/

      • Anonymous says:

        Amen. RTD has no obligation to the audience. His obligation is a original product with high standards of quality. We all seem to sound like spoiled ungrateful children.

        • Anonymous says:

          Except he has an obligation to the audience when it's the audience that is keeping his work on the air. The show wouldn't have lasted unless there were people like us watching it. The way his interviews are sounding is that he doesn't care about the people who are watching his work, making it all very frustrating for me.I loved Ianto's character the most out of all the other characters, I especially loved Jack and Ianto together and that was a huge part of me watching the show. I loved the writing and the edge it had, but it's really hard for me to want to watch the show without any characters that I care about.I'm not sure if I can deal with new characters.I'm also not sure about Gwen being basically the only one left, she really was not my favorite character. I basically put up with her because of the other characters.The stories may continue to be great, but there need to be great characters to back them up.Yes, it's a drama and there are tragic deaths, but this show really went through their characters quick, huh? The only reason there are two of the team left is because Jack is the leader and Gwen has always had a free card for whatever reason. If she had died, that would have been "drama", because being on the Torchwood team is just that dangerous, when even Gwen can die.

          • dean Ismail says:

            No, RTD really has no obligation to the fans of his show. Really. He might want to, or made to , keep characters alive for the sake of ratings, and keeping shows on air.HOWEVER, I am under the impression that he writes and has been writing stuff pretty much on his own term. Which is what I'd say artistic integrity. There is soooo much more in CoE than the death of Ianto.

      • limelight says:

        "Last time I checked, "death to all", was the formula for real life.I'll be watching any and all Torchwood followups until I get bored. (Just like life!)"Our lifetime tells everyone of us, that the people we love and care about can die even. The question of drama or tragedy is: Can we stand it, can we live on, an how? The opportunities are: death, hate, revenge, ignore it, run away (like Jack) or multiple other ways. One of this ways is, to see and believe, that there are other people, who our care is worth it, and see how they interact with you. Every art work (I'm german, we call it "Kunst") has to show us, how we would feel an act, if we would be in a situation like the main persons in the plot. So let us see. On german TV we have seen today the last episode of season 3. And for me it was the best written and played Torchwood season of all. I'll be watching any and all Torchwood followups until I get bored.

    • HBPattskyn says:

      I have to agree with you (and disagree with the guy who replied to you, at least in part.) Of course the stories are important, but what are the stories without the characters we love? I guess it's the difference between plot driven and character driven drama, and for me it's the characters who make the stories worth watching. I'm with you, what's the point of getting emotionally invested if you know going in that they're just going to keep killing characters off?? I understand that this may be a difference in perspective between American audiances and British audiances; I read somewhere that over there character death is more common than it is over here.

  10. Chrys says:

    As much as I love Torchwood, without Jack and Ianto, there really is not a Torchwood worth watching. Gwen (and whoever she recruits) just isn't enough.

  11. Anonymous says:

    You cry babies need to grow up. I know I'll be watching because the show is called "Torchwood" not the Jack and Ianto show!

  12. Mike Gold says:

    What makes you think Jack won't be back?

  13. Anonymous says:

    Ugh… won't be interested after RTD ruined it in season 3.

  14. Anonymous says:

    well that sucks. why the heck should I give a toss about the gwen show? whATever…..

  15. Kitty says:

    Well, considering the success of 'Children of Earth', I'm not at all surprized. I'm happy if this means we'll get to see more Captain Jack. He's a great character and John Barrowman is awesome. I really hope it's a full season, though. The five episode one-story format worked as a one-off, but as a fan I'd like a proper full season. Five episodes was not enough. Also, while I'm making wishes, can we please a/ find a way to bring Ianto back? Just for a little while? Pretty please? b/ see more of Captain John Hart (James Marsters) and the other mysterious Time Agents? That would be rad.

  16. Betty says:

    I never thought I would say this on the news of a new season of Torchwood: I don't care.Torchwood was killed with Ianto (and Myfanwy). Happy Gwen and broken Jack are not enough for me to care any longer.

  17. Anonymous says:

    Excellent news!

  18. joisiee says:

    Can't imagine where they're going to start from or how they're going to get the fans to care. I might have a look in just to see what's up, but after the carnage of CoE, I doubt that I will follow it faithfully or buy the merchandise anymore.

  19. CPJ says:

    Yes!! I will keep watching Torchwood. Yes! Yes! Yes!

  20. Tigger-Roo says:

    Great News. There is nothing to say that Jack won't be back, and I believe JB has already cited that he wants to be in it if it returns.As for Ianto, he does not make Torchwood. He was not a big player in Season 1. He did not come into his own until Season 2. That's a story arc. Personally I love that sort of thing, to see a character develop, and if we have to lose him as part of story-line so be it. I'd rather have travelled that story with Ianto and lost him, than never have heard of him at all.I am sure there will be great new characters as RTD is a great writer. Gwen was fantastic in Series 3, and I didn't like her at all in Seasons 1 and 2, Rhys is now coming into his own. I have every confidence in Season4 and look forward to it immensely.

    • clavicular says:

      For you, Ianto didn't make Torchwood. For some people, he did. I think a lot of people feel cheated, too, because there are so few queer relationships shown on television and it's sad to see this one come to such a tragic (if inevitable) end. I have to agree with you about Gwen, though – I always kind of liked her, but I didn't love her this much before s3. And her relationship with Rhys, though I hated it in s1, was utterly adorable this season. I confess I am looking forward to seeing the new characters and I hope we'll see some old ones back (Lois, for example, was totally awesome and I'd love to see her join the team). I'm really excited about the new season, though a bit worried, given how many characters we've said goodbye to recently. But CoE exceeded my expectations by miles, so I'm hopeful that the next season will be just as good.

  21. fran says:

    Why should I care that there's going to be a fourth series. Tosh and Owen gone in series two. Ianto in what I laughingly call series three. Jack as a character has been deconstructed back to series one of Doctor Who and then some. After three series, Gwen still holds no interest to/for me.No, Torchwood or any incarnation of it is gone and I will not watch another one.

  22. Kiri Jones says:

    I'm in the "don't care, without Ianto I shall not be watching" camp.I wish Eve and John well, but Torchwood ended with series two for me.Cannot for the life of me work out why the BBC would want to continue to be associated with an arrogant , fan disrespecting, polite words fail me, "person" like RTD, and I actually think less of the actors, too, for continuing with this, it will be a travesty.

    • badblokebob says:

      "Cannot for the life of me work out why the BBC would want to continue to be associated with an arrogant , fan disrespecting, polite words fail me, "person" like RTD"Because he's a damn fine writer who co-wrote one of the finest miniseries we've had on TV for years (and by that I do mean Children of Earth). It's the fact that he's "fan disrespecting" that means his shows are so good — try to cater to fans too much and you end up ruining your show, like Heroes, or getting cancelled for being too niche (or, usually, both).The internet reaction to CoE seems to prove why a show like Torchwood could only be made in the UK: the mass American audience is grown up enough to deal with it. (To be fair, neither are plenty of Brits, it would seem.)

      • Anonymous says:

        I have to admit I laughed a bit reading your comment (not because it was ridiculous mind you) but because I realized that I love Heroes and that I generally like shows that cater to me. I will point out that I don't think CoE was particularly poorly written; it was heaps better than previous the Torchwood series'. It just helped me to realize that it's not for me, and in that respect I do feel that RTD was spot on in saying that at least a percentage of fans care more for the characters than a dramatic plotline and shouldn't be watching the show. Although Torchwood does seem to fancy killing off main characters with little remorse more so than equally compelling dramas I've watched. This could have to do with how small the team was though, making even one let alone three deaths extremely significant.

    • dean Ismail says:

      I thought it is refreshing to have a series which is plot driven, and heavy on moral conflicts and issues driven too. Torchwood (and Dr Who to a lesser extend) is rich with subtexts and dilemmas that are evident in the real world, but put into a sci-fi plots. The characters are to drive the plots. Not the other way around. Either one is fine by me. However, to keep characters for the sake of popularity could become very expensive, and plots can be limited to the same old formulas. Hence will lose audience anyway, or become too expensive to produce. Anyway, can't win them all..

  23. Anonymous says:

    Whats the point in a series 4? No Ianto? No Hub? Watch a show, get interested and/or emotionally invested in the characters just to see them die? I used to watch Torchwood to be entertained, not mentally tortured. Stick it where the sun don't shine, RTD.

  24. Anonymous says:

    That is great to hear.There is so much more to explore that it would have been a waste not to have a season 4

  25. Anonymous says:

    Oh, wow, you guys really are losers, aren't you?

  26. Jonathan Miller says:

    Count me in for the "absolutely damn sure will be watching if there's a fourth series" camp. I thought "CoE" was some of the best television I'd seen in quite some time and I'm glad the "fan entitlement" of a small proportion of viewers isn't stopping the BBC (assuming this is confirmed) from continuing with the series. And I'm surprised and gratified that the incredible and unjustified vitriol some of that same small proportion have directed on a very personal level towards the creators and cast haven't soured everyone involved on the whole thing. Seriously folks, thanks for driving James Moran pretty much off the internet. And Russell is a huge fanboy, but he has a responsibility that far exceeds fannish preoccupations. I don't like everything he's written either, but some of the personal attacks I've been seeing (Kiri's "person" is nowhere near the extreme) just makes me shake my head and wonder if maybe some of these fans are a little too invested in very specific, small things. No one hates you, folks. There are just differing opinions regarding direction. Anyone who sees Ianto's death as a personal affront…I don't think RTD's the problem there.

  27. Anonymous says:

    I would soo love to have another series. Bring it on!

  28. Anonymous says:

    Great post Jonathan, I too will be watching if there is a forth season. I think some people forget that Torchwood is so good because it doesn't rely on the usual format of adventure TV when you know all the main characters are safe no matter what.

  29. maeissin says:

    I can see people upset over the loss of three of the main characters (Tosh was my big loss), but the story is what matters to me. I've been a fan of Doctor Who for several decades and am accustomed to characters changing all the time. It will be interesting to see how they reboot the show — that, in itself, is almost enough to bring me back. CoE could be considered a great swan song, OR it could be a great cliff hanger OR it could be a great way to restart the show to correct some of the flaws of the original "version." Either way, if it's good, entertaining SciFi TV with quality writing and good acting, I don't care who actually makes up the cast. Jack needs to be a part of the show, even if he's "in'n'out." Gwen is the substitute for the companion in Doctor Who — the person who stands in for the audience to get Jack's explanation. New characters can also fill that roll, now that Gwen is seasoned. Other than that — the rest of the cast shouldn't matter. Get over it.

    • Anonymous says:

      but this is not supposed to be doctor who. if there are so many bloody parallels it's because RTD is so limited in his story ideas. why is it only acceptable to kiss his butt, but expressing disagreement and well thought-out criticism of his notions of DRAMAOMG, only brings the brat out of the guy. his utter failure to create well-rounded characters out tosh, owen, and ianto is clear cut example of how his notions of DRAMAOMG need serious rethinking.coe was the john frobisher story. as the john frobisher story, it was riveting. as a tw story, nope.

      • Anonymous says:

        So John Frobisher, the character RTD created especially for COE, was riveting, but RTD fails to create well-rounded characters? Referring to Tosh, Owen and Ianto – who he barely ever wrote for? I detect butthurt.

    • scrobette says:

      Look, if I wanted to watch Dr. Who then I would be watching that show…I hate the whole companion thing! Torchwood was different…and it was the characters and their interpersonal dynamics that made the show great…NOT necessarily the storylines. The rest of the cast shouldn't matter? Good Grief!!

  30. Anonymous says:

    I will be watching, the standard of writing for Children of Earth was absolutely fantastic and although upset at the deaths of key characters, no one character is bigger than the show. Much like with Doctor Who itself.

  31. Alli says:

    Don't forget, we don't really know what happened to Owen – he can't die, so how did the nuclear reaction affect him? There is also always an alternative universe – well established in Dr Who. What about Martha? I think there's heaps of scope.

    • clavicular says:

      He can't die but he can't heal himself like Jack can either. I doubt there'd be enough left of him after that nuclear reaction for him to come back.(Also, I would be so overjoyed to see Martha back in Torchwood – even for a little while – I could not even tell you.)

    • jenny says:

      i agree with the alternative universe i watched doctor who the other day the last one in series 2 with rose and on the paralell universe they have torchwood roses father says torchwood there torchwood here and if the earth was under that much of a threat the doctor would of arrived so whos to say that coe wasnt set in this paralel torchwood and earth as they dont have the doctor and gwen films a video for the doctor and jack i think wouldnt sacrifice his own grandson if there was no way of getting him back thats what i believe in all the other series of torchwood its jack that has sacrificed himself knowing he can survive to save the world so why didnt he find a way of doing it this time. so if rtd is a clever man he will take note of whast we are all saying about him killing the series and series 4 will start with our much beloved ianto as rtd said in an interview gwen talks about the doctor in the last episode of coe and if you watch the doctor who episode maybe just maybe there is hope for us torchwood fans and jack/ianto fans but they cant make jack nasty either but i think we will just have to wait and see what happens and if rtd takes on bord what the fans are saying and give us what we want a happy jack and ianto back as well

  32. Noor says:

    Not interested. Sorry.

  33. Anonymous says:

    I really don't care. "Children of Earth" was the end of Torchwood.Anna

  34. an says:

    I don't care. With the current state of things I can't see how I'll ever be able to enjoy the show again, so I won't be watching.

  35. Joely says:

    For those looking forward to more of the indestructable Jack & Gwen show, with a whole new team of shiny, disposable human beings, enjoy ! No doubt Gwen's sidekick hubby Rhys and comedy copper Andy will have to be next to the slaughter of 'those remaining we give a damn about'. Tosh, Owen, Myfanwy, the Hub… all gone, even the damn car ! Hubby and I were clinging to Jack & Ianto, as the only reason we were still watching. Ianto was killed simply because there was no-one left of the original team to sacrifice that we'd truly shed a tear for. Torchwood lost it's true *heart* with Ianto Jones.

  36. Atkinlea says:

    I enjoyed every episode of 'CoE', it is a shame that Ianto has died but it interesting to know how Gwen copes fliting between 'Saver of the Universe' and being a mother

  37. Becky says:

    I am *thrilled*. Torchwood was always about Jack, just like Doctor Who is about the Doctor. That means the secondary characters (companions, staff) will change. And for the love of GOD Jack was with Ianto *maybe* 3 years, if you really push it. Jack's how many 100s of years old? Of course there's a show there without him, and of *course* he had to be killed off. Nothing else could have EVER happened. What'd people think they were going to get? Happily ever-after? IN TORCHWOOD? *eyeroll*

    • Anonymous says:

      Despite everything that happened, teflon gwen is still alive. rhy is still alive. her baby so far is still alive. ianto was in the show for three years, but was he in a relationship with jack for three years? no. as was said in coe, we don't even know what it was (and after coe even more questions were raised about ianto), because they didn't bother to do anything with it to give it any credibility.

      • Anonymous says:

        I completely second the above post and I'd like to point out to people who say that the cast is fluid besides Jack should take a look at Gwen. Torchwood was introduced as the Gwen and Jack show and I rolled my eyes at Gwen with her Mary-Suesque 'heart' and tried to concentrate on the other characters. But Gwen cannot be touched, even Rhys was brought back to from the dead despite the concept of it making no sense (not complaining too much though as I adore his character). I was hoping that maybe invincible Gwen Cooper might be affected by this series like every other character was, but no. At the end she's smiling with her hubby and looking shiny and new as when we first got her.

    • Anonymous says:

      i like it! thats a good perspective of the show. the people who say they are not going to watch it because some characters are not in it anymore dont really know what they will be missing. i will definatly continue to watch as it is one of my favorite shows even if COE was far to involved for me and made me cry

  38. Beth says:

    I'll watch but with trepidation. After all the damage that RTD did to the series, I refuse to let myself care anymore — kinda like Jack, I guess. No Ianto. Too much Gwen. Jack on walk-about. There is no Torchwood anymore. I guess I'll just stick to the fanfiction where Jack and Ianto will always be together.

    • mike weber says:

      After all the damage that RTD did to the seriesLike creating it?

      • Lord Snooty says:

        I have read in an UK "newspaper" that RTD wanted to deboot Jack for Steven (the writer to thought up the good captain!) to use in the upcoming new series of Dr Who and not worry about Torchwood

      • scrobette says:

        …and then ridiculously destroying it in 5 long arduous hours. That wasn't TW! is was RTD's evil doppleganger… a very pale, boring one at that. Uh oh! Big evil govt…Bad alien *yawn*

  39. Anonymous says:

    Considering Jack and the Team are not the first Torchwood team to have appeared on TV and there is mention of other Torchwood teams, a change in direction may suit the series. Seriously the need for a shag fest remake of other programs needs a serious production team. The current team have proved they are past their abilities with the last couple of Doctor Who episodes. Time to move on.

  40. Josh says:

    I was intrigued by the first uneven series of Torchwood. With series 2, it got better despite choices that I personally may not have cared for. C of E was deliberately tough to watch and I was glad of that fact. It was so much better than reality type shows or some other crap on the air. I am surprised to see Ianto has so many fans. No offense to Gareth but I thought they did nothing with him in the first year except the abysmal Cyberwoman. He was immediately better (loved the dry wit) in the second series and I did care for his relationship with Jack. But I really enjoyed Jack's character so much more than Ianto's. Whether that's just John Barrowman, I dunno. Probably. He has great charisma and is a fine actor. I think the team did mix well overall…while they were alive. I also thought Eve was great as Gwen and am surprised to see some didn't care for her. And Rhys…well, what's not to like? Doesn't anybody like nice guys anymore? If Jack is back, I'll bve there for Torchwood 4 and if not, I'll at least check out how they're going to do whatever they do. As for RTD, his work certainly stirs the pot which I suspect is exactly what he wants. Thank you, Russell and good luck, Steven!

  41. kendra says:

    Wow, wonder how they're going to surpass S3. Bring on the 789 aliens to look for 20% of the kids? How about giving Jack a geat grandson to sacrifice? Kill off Gwen to show yet again that Torchwood operatives die young? (yeah right)Children of Earth was not the Torchwood we'd been shown in S1 & 2. It was a political thriller with the Torchwood label slapped on it to sucker in the loyal S1 &2 viewers. Without Ianto, S4 does not exist as far as i'm concerned.

    • Anonymous says:

      Perhaps they'll fine Jack a new lover and kill him from sheer stupidity? Woops …… I forgot that you can die. I'm just going to hold you in my arms like a bad rip-off of Romeo and Juliet. Oh your dead. Well that was fun while it last. Now to find the Doctor so I can get a new lover. Woohoo.

      • Anonymous says:

        HAHAHAHAHA!!! Gee, I think they did that already! If this Alonzo guy does becomes Jack's lover, not only will he pale in comparison to Ianto in every way, but they'll probably do the whole "I'm Jack, I;m immortal and now I must be way over the top protective because I made a really STUPID mistake with the last person I got involved with!" or they'll just have Jack be a total player who refuses to commit. Though I can see RTD having Jack suddenly falling in love (with Gwen or some other annoying woman) and becoming even more pathetic as he'll be whipped. Bleah….

  42. Barbara says:

    I won't watch the St Gwen show; the character is just a little too goody two shoes for me. Without Jack the show is nothing…no amount of 'fresh meat' will help. I won't beat myself up over trying to figure out if there will be a guest shot with Jack or a flashback with Ianto. Nope, sorry the only way I'll even consider watching is if Jack is back full time AND if it does not become the Jack and St Gwen UST hour. I thought CoE was a piece of swiss cheese.

    • Abby =D says:

      Believe me they'll bring Jack back. Torchwood IS Jack. Jack leaving gives Gwen the opportunity for her to have her baby and for Jack to pick up another lover. Sounds harsh, but that's Jack!

      • Anonymous says:

        Unfortunately, I think if Jack just picks up again with another lover right away (even if it's not right away for him, it will be for us), it will kill the show. There are too many people who were deeply emotionally invested in Jack and Ianto as a couple (as is evidenced by the number of unhappy fans.)It is extremely unlikely that Martha will return, Freema has signed on with another network to do Law and Order: London.

        • mike weber says:

          It is extremely unlikely that Martha will return, Freema has signed on with another network to do Law and Order: London.Only signed for thirteen episodes so far.

          • Anonymous says:

            I was told by someone in the UK that the mere fact of her signing on made it unlikely that she would return to Torchwood…something about network competition… no idea if it's really that bad. I'd love to see Martha again, even just in a guest spot.

          • Lord Snooty says:

            Just the way the BBC works at the moment in there eyes they "found" her and made her a "star" and she as an actor gos off to find some work OUTSIDE the BBC !! Shame on her in the eyes of the BBC !!.This is not the first time the BBC have acted like this and it will not be the last.As you said I would love to see her back too

          • Lord Snooty says:

            All thirteen are in the can/finshed but they have not heard from the U.S.A network who was going to show them if they wanted any more as they were sharing the cost of making them ! I do know she up set a few of the people on Dr Who for taking the part and the question should be would they have her back ?

  43. Lynette says:

    Even if RTD didn't kill off over half its main cast in 5 episodes, the complete contempt he has show the fans of the show is gonna stop me from watching a new series. I also don't want to get emotionally invested in another team only to have them killed off as well.

    • Jackie Stone says:

      I agree 110% with you. I can understand the killing off of essential characters IF there is a GOOD reason (like Owen and Tosh), but there was no reason for Ianto to die, not YET. Sure, Jack lives forever (sort of, Face of Boe does die eventually) but why couldn't Jack have been able to watch Ianto grow old and die? It could have been one good memory of Earth. Also, the way that RTD is completely disregarding the fans…. I'm not saying completely cater to us, that's what fanfiction is for, but try to remember that yes, devoted fans get attached to characters, it happens. To have them die so needlessly is like saying that the character meant nothing to the show. GOOD writers say that you shouldn't kill a character off unless it serves a purpose to the story. So tell me what purpose Ianto's death served? Wouldn't it have been better for Jack's character to have to watch someone he loved suffer with illnesses, broken bones, insecurities about the relationship, and eventually old age… It would show us that Jack realizes how fragile life is, any moment it can be taken away. They touched (very) briefly on that in "Small World" series one, with Estelle Cole, but they didn't truly delve into why Jack avoided the "aging lover" issue.

  44. Shannon says:

    I wish I could be happier about it. If Jack comes back I'll give the show a try because for me Torchwood = Jack and my respect for John Barrowman and love for Jack will win out. But honestly, they just killed off three major characters in a five episode span. Why should I let myself get invested in a new set only to watch them get picked off one by one too? I understand that Torchwood is a dangerous job, but at some point a line gets crossed, from "Torchwood is dangerous and the characters aren't safe" to "Everyone is effectively a red shirt who will be killed when a bit more drama is needed."

  45. Quinn says:

    Who cares? I'm sure not going to watch the SuperCooper show and watch them kill off all the other characters for no apparent reason as time goes on.

  46. Owen says:

    Happy for John Barrowman, but who cares? I can already predict – someone will die to boost ratings, but it won't be Gwen. Yawn.

  47. Anonymous says:

    Dear Ianto loyalists: you are a bunch of babies! Quit crying. This is Torchwood, not Disney Land. You want happily ever after BS, go watch cartoons or see one of those Michael Bay travesties. Torchwood is gritty and dangerous, where anyone (who are not fixed points in time) can die. That is what makes it better than most sci-fi shows out there. What did you expect? Star Trek BS where they have people in red show up every week to die? Good lord.

    • Anonymous says:

      I am more than aware of the difference between Torchwood and Disney, but my expectations were that Torchwood would be an exciting sci-fi show. NOT a poorly written half-assed political drama with more plot holes than plot. Killing off most of your main cast just to prove how dangerous life can be doesn't always mean good drama, it just felt like a cheep plot device.What's the point of watching anything if you're not invested in at least some of the characters, they might as all be waring redshirts if killing someone is used to further the plot.RTD is a brilliant storyteller, but then so are most politicians and I don't trust the BS they trot out either!

    • dkwilliams says:

      Funny how Alice's mom lasted 9 years in dangerous Torchwood, got out alive and not retconned, and died of a natural disease. Funny how Gwen manages to not get a scratch. Oh – it's only dangerous for people who aren't needed for a plotline or adored by the show's creator.

      • clavicular says:

        Hmm, do I hear wistful thinking here? Being upset about the death of one character doesn't make another character's potential death more realistic. I know a lot of people would rather Gwen died than Ianto – fair enough, everyone has their favourite character, but I'm so over everyone bashing her all the time. I loved Ianto, I love Jack/Ianto and I love Gwen. These things are not mutually exclusive. From what I remember (and I could be wrong) they actually remarked upon the fact that Alice's mother surviving Torchwood was unusual. We still don't know – assuming Gwen does return to Torchwood which I believe she will – what her eventual fate will be. If she does come back then I wouldn't be surprised if she goes before the show is finished its run, the way things are going.

    • Anonymous says:

      Really? Then how was it that Gwen dodged being shot by a trained sniper, and survived an attack in the ambulance? If this was really 'gritty and dangerous', her brains would have been all over the ambulance the minute the laser found her. Snipers shoot, they don't wait for their targets to roll away. As for red shirts, doubtless they'll be there in series 4.

    • clavicular says:

      You know, the "Soon we'll have star trek where no one ever dies if we don't kill off EVERY CHARACTER EVER" argument is getting kind of old. Can I point out that the original Star Trek ran for almost 80 episodes over 3 seasons, and spawned five spin-offs and eleven movies and is probably the best known sci-fi franchise in the English-speaking world. I'm not saying Torchwood is trying to be or should try to be Star Trek (although I'm sure it wouldn't turn down having that kind of success), but for God's sake come up with a better line that "It might turn into one of the most successful sci-fi series of all time!" Hmm, that's not really a deterrent when you think about it. I'm not trying to play devil's advocate (although it probably seems like I am anyway, given I seem to be disagreeing with people on both sides of the divide) and I personally thought Ianto's death was handled well within the show, but is it really necessary to be so nasty? People get invested in characters, and it can be heartbreaking to see them go.

    • TammyJo Eckhart, PhD says:

      I didn't want a happy ending, I wanted what producers like Julia Gardener, actors, writers, and others were telling us about Torchwood in multiple interviews — that the relationship would be developed over series — plural.This taught me that basically I shouldn't believe any thing these folks say in interviews whether its at convention, in magazines or any other sources. They will say whatever they want to try and get ratings.Better in my opinion for them simply to say "You'll have to watch and see" instead of playing around with potential scenarios and claims the characters are important.

    • CPJ says:

      Frankly, I am starting to feel amused by their negative responses. No offense to them but I can't help it.

  48. Anonymous says:

    I couldn't care less… If they don't fix things in the new season I see no reason to watch the Gwen/Jack Show where everyone else is likely going to die a pointless death in order to shock the audience and to emphasize the danger of Torchwood. Seriously, if that is the only thing the writers can come up with I feel sad for them.

  49. Anonymous says:

    You're all liars.You Ianto shippers, Gwen haters, and generally negative folk will all turn in to watch, because there just isn't anything better being produced right now. Torchwood (despite a few individually weak episodes) is far superior to 90% of all the other crap available, and the premiere of the new series will have you all glued to the telly just like last time, just to see what happens. Despite whatever idea you might have about "what Torchwood is really about", the show appealed to enough of you to rise beyond your dissatisfaction with individual elements of it. Grow up, accept the fact that nothing is forever, and be happy that someone, somewhere, is producing original sci-fi in any form.

    • Martina says:

      The characters are what matter. Characters we like are what allow us to ignore horrible plot holes (CoE was a monstrous plot hole itself), derivative stories. I stopped watching many shows in the past when they didn't work for me anymore, CoE certainly didn't do anything to keep me interested in watching more of it. I'm out.By the way, I loved Ianto but I'm most definitely no Gwen hater (Gwen telling Rhys about the pregnancy was probably one of the best moments of CoE), I just find the idea of her saving the world with a baby on one arm and a big gun on the other, and her out of the blue upgraded skills hilarious, not to mention her infallible good luck, and the fact that no matter how big the risks, nothing will ever left even a scratch on her.

    • dkwilliams says:

      I tuned in because I loved Captain Jack on Doctor Who and was interested in seeing what a spin-off series around him would be like. I stayed because I got interested in this incredible group of misfits, despite the cheesy plots and questionable choices they made. When they killed off 3/5 of the characters and sent the ONE I TUNED IN FOR off into space a broken man, I lost interest. I won't be back.

    • scrobette says:

      Sorry, but I'll go read a good book before I watch any S4 traversty… and believe me I'm NOT lying.

    • Anonymous says:

      I totally agree. I sobbed at the deaths of Tosh and Owen, nearly died when Ianto passed away in Jack's arms, and wept for Gwen when she had to say goodbye to Jack (with the realization that he was a flawed and tragic hero.) CoE was a mini-masterpiece. And I will most definitely be watching Series/Season 4 if we are lucky enough to get one. Keep on RTD…..science fiction is what we all tune in for…and you are The Master! Thanks!

    • clavicular says:

      Most of my thoughts on this can be read elsewhere in the thread (although I think you're misled if you think that people who say they won't be watching don't mean every word of it – Hell hath no fury like a fan scorned).But'd I just like to say: Jack/Ianto shippers who also love Gwen, represent! *waves a tiny, lonely flag* (But we do exist, honest!)

    • Anonymous says:

      "…..Their plan to just barge in there and give the Earth crushing alien a firm talking to was a stupid plan."I'm glad I'm not the only person who thought that.

    • Anonymous says:

      I disagree completely with the assessment that there isn't much of anything better out there; I also disagree that we should be happy "just" because someone somewhere is producing original sci-fi in any form.I will tune into watch, but I may not stay long. I think with the overwhelming number of choices available to the average cable/dish network viewer, producers need to be a little more sensitve. Now… I should clarify that I was never one of the ones lining up to tar and feather RTD. I appreciate that he had a story to tell and he told it. I just wanted to say that there are LOTS of fantastic shows out there that do not regularly slaughter half the cast in the span of just a few epsiodes. Even as someone who can appreciate a sad ending, CoE was just a little *too* much. There was no sense of hope at the end.

  50. Anonymous says:

    Jesus Christ, stop you whining and celebrate that that one of the best scifi shows now running has just been renewed! CoE was one of the best thing I've seen in many months BECAUSE of drama; it wouldn't work without hard choices and someone acctualy killed. The show is called 'Torchwood', not 'Ianto', I will judge the quality of S4 WHEN I see it, not before like most of you kids…

    • scrobette says:

      Why should I be celebrating??? S3 CoE was not "quality" so why in the world should I believe that a S4 will be any different?Drama does not necessarily mean destroy everything in meaningless and pointless ways… TW was a different sort of sci-fi…ordinary people doing an unordinary job being led by a very unorthodox (ie: immortal) leader. It was the varied characters and their dynamics that made the show worth watching. CoE was so OCC.. no one but Rhys was acting in canon. The plot holes alone were huge enough to drive the SUV through…arrgghh it was all so contrived and stupid! Personally I loved that quirkiness that was S1 and S2…I didn't watch only for Ianto but I have to admit that the chemistry between JB and GDL was compelling…and it proved of interest enough to have me view S3. God how I wish I hadn't… CoE was nothing but an unfamiliar dark, depressing blah… if that is what people want as entertainment they can have it…I am not whining… I will simply no longer be a fan.

    • CPJ says:

      I know what you mean. I simply sit and read their responses on comment. Oh boy! I have no problem with COE. So Jack will be back after he get refresh perspective among the stars.

  51. Anonymous says:

    Russell T Davies can go stuff it up his arsehole. I am not going to be watching another series of this just to get emotional involved with the cast just to have them taken away from me, and told by the sod creator that "it's in the nature of the show" and suck it up. No fucking way.

  52. Marina Kravchik (fan says:

    But i will watch. It does not matter that it would be quite another. I love Torchwood. )))

    • dean Ismail says:

      yes, me too. the plots are so cleverly reflective. To be honest, even if it is not Captain Jack, I'd still watch it. People come and go. Fact. :-)

  53. teamon says:

    Sorry, but after finding quite by accident an article by one of the producers at imdb, Julie? that stated all Torchwood agents die young. But she did report that there was one exception in season 3, Gwen Cooper.I found it hard to watch season 3 with Ianto death. But after learning of this, I found it hard to accept that any character I may become attached to may be written off. But with one exception.No I won"t be watching, sorry not after learbing this.

  54. abbi says:

    Tune in for the series 4 rebirth of Gwack and the Red Shirts? I think not. Every single thing I loved about Torchwood has been systematically dismantled in the space of 6 episodes, losing Ianto might be the last and worse blow but the Hub, Torchwood and all its history and background, Tosh, Owen, Myffanwy, Janet, the morgue full of ex-agent popsicles, the archives full of impossible alien tech, that silly darned SUV, all gone, Jack traumatised and emo and that odious slapper Gwen gets everything all her way. Just RTD can blitz the ratings with his version of Spooks – teh government is teh eval (with added aliens). Whatever. He has his shiny new audience, we fans of the first two series have had it made clear to us that we're no longer welcome. I guess the fact that the show would have never made it to series three without the fans he so deeply despises has kind of escaped his notice.

  55. abbi says:

    Tune in for the series 4 rebirth of Gwack and the Red Shirts? I think not. Every single thing I loved about Torchwood has been systematically dismantled in the space of 6 episodes, losing Ianto might be the last and worse blow but the Hub, Torchwood and all its history and background, Tosh, Owen, Myffanwy, Janet, the morgue full of ex-agent popsicles, the archives full of impossible alien tech, that silly darned SUV, all gone, Jack traumatised and emo and that odious slapper Gwen gets everything all her way. Just RTD can blitz the ratings with his version of Spooks – teh government is teh eval (with added aliens). Whatever. He has his shiny new audience, we fans of the first two series have had it made clear to us that we're no longer welcome. I guess the fact that the show would have never made it to series three without the fans he so deeply despises has kind of escaped his notice.

  56. Anonymous says:

    Unless they bring back Ianto and Jack, as played by GDL and JB, I'm not interested. They in combination were truly the heart of the show for me. It's not the explosions and aliens that truly make a sci-fi show for me (although I do love them), it's the characters and their development and interaction. For some bizarre reason, RTD decided to kill off the parts of the show that they fans loved, and has expressed nothing but contempt for fan reaction ever since. Gwen was always a bit problematic for me as a character, and I certainly don't want to watch a Gwen centered or even Gwen/Jack show.No Ianto = they've lost me. They've lost me = they've lost the revenue from the DVDs and books I've been buying. I might just have to go watch Supernatural instead.

  57. Rebecca says:

    I was as crushed as anyone when Owen and Tosh died. Ianto's death shattered me to the core and seeing Jack reduced…well, what can I say. But I will definitely be watching the next season. This is as real as Sci-Fi can get…people you love die, heroes are not perfect, and solutions to a problem are not always easy to accept. I'm certain Jack will be back…this is all part of the journey he needs to travel on his way to becoming Boe. I want to be a part of that journey even if it's painful to watch.

  58. Anonymous says:

    Tune in for the series 4 rebirth of Gwack and the Red Shirts? I think not. Every single thing I loved about Torchwood has been systematically dismantled in the space of 6 episodes, losing Ianto might be the last and worse blow but the Hub, Torchwood and all its history and background, Tosh, Owen, Myffanwy, Janet, the morgue full of ex-agent popsicles, the archives full of impossible alien tech, that silly darned SUV, all gone, Jack traumatised and emo and that odious slapper Gwen gets everything all her way. Just RTD can blitz the ratings with his version of Spooks – teh government is teh eval (with added aliens). Whatever. He has his shiny new audience, we fans of the first two series have had it made clear to us that we're no longer welcome. I guess the fact that the show would have never made it to series three without the fans he so deeply despises has kind of escaped his notice.

  59. Anonymous says:

    I, like many of you all, have be a fan of sci-fi and especially Dr Who for years. Every show has it's formula and responsive fanbase. We don't watch all sci-fi just because of the label. Dr. Who's characters always change, always. We've loved or hated to see certain characters/actors go but go they must (it's the way Dr. Who is). To be honest I don't recall seeing so many recurring companions . Can we expect anything less from Torchwood. Personally I was disappointed with the extended family members tossed in the mix unnecessarily(Lucy Cohu's bum in jeans, worth it) . RTD's sad attempt to jerk our emotional chains in a five episode series. Give us some credit please. Still, there's been another death in our family. It hurts, but we will survive.

  60. TammyJo Eckhart, PhD says:

    So this will be the "Gwen" show then because Jack left.Getting him back would need to be very contrived. He came back series two "for you" (said to Ianto) and "for all of you" said to entire team. No Ianto, no team now. Only Gwen and if that couldn't keep him on Earth why would it bring him back?

    • Martina says:

      Don't worry about Jack, he'll be back as new after appearing in Doctor Who? Would it make sense with CoE? Of course not, but who cares? It's not like CoE took into account the first two seasons of Torchwood either, that's why we get characters and relationships going back to the start of series 2, instead of developing. I hate what they've done with his character, and to make it worse they pushed Ianto back to where he was in early series 1 and then killed him off in a most contrived and stupid scenario.

      • TammyJo Eckhart, PhD says:

        Could someone prove a link to this idea that Jack will be in "Doctor Who"? I keep seeing this idea but as yet have seen nothing official about John Barrowman being in any of the new Tennant episodes.

        • Martina says:

          It's not an idea, Barrowman was spotted, photographed and caught on film in character. I don't save links to everything but just google a little, JB saying he was just going to Tesco in his Captain Jack outfit was hilarious.

          • clavicular says:

            "JB saying he was just going to Tesco in his Captain Jack outfit was hilarious."HEE! That's fantastic and very him. Oh, I'm glad to hear confirmation he'll be on Dr Who.

      • Anonymous says:

        It works. If Jack had just sat down and started rebuilding the hub, it would have been disrespectful to Ianto. Torchwood has more than enough money to get everything again…except for Ianto. I don't think that it is RTD's fault. Gareth David-Lloyd didn't want to be stuck in torchwood all his life and I don't blame him because he's a young and good actor and Ianto is such a strong character that it would be hard to get out of that. I'm definately going to watch to give torchwood my support so that it can keep going and get back on track. You can't tell what's going to happen. As for not being sure about Barrowman in dr who, wikipedia has the cast list for the episodes and John Barrowman is right there as captain Jack. You don't get rid of him that easy.

        • TammyJo Eckhart, PhD says:

          HUH?Mr. David-Llyod is in no way to blame for his character's death. He has very bluntly said he was disappointed by that decision and would have loved and would still love to do "Torchwood" for many years to come. You can check out various interviews with him and his official website about this. If someone has claimed otherwise, they are lying.

    • Patrick says:

      It's actually quite simple. If RTD is still involved in Torchwood then Jack will more likely than not show up, happy as can be and ready to get back to work. Then whenever anyone asks him why any and all character development was neglected and a very blatant attempt was made to cover the resulting plot hole, RTD will simple accuse that person of misunderstanding his incredibly creative mind and tell them to piss off. We're all inferior to him, you see.

  61. melxvengeance says:

    I absolutely agree with all the above comments saying that RTD has completely sabotaged any future with Torchwood with his very pricey and daring move of killing off Ianto. Torchwood ended at series 2 when Owen was killed off, but however, i got over this so i could watch series 3. Killing Ianto off was taking everything too far, and effectively, the makers of TW have shot themselves in the foot by doing so. Ianto was the heart of the show, I don't think there was one TW fan out there that didn't love our trusty teaboy. I will not be watching series 4, or buying series 3 on dvd.For me, Torchwood is all about series 1 & 2, the good old days. As usual, i predicted that something was going to go horribly wrong in series 3 and as usual, I was write. I'm only sorry that only NOW do people listen to me. RIP Ianto, Owen & Toshiko, none of you can ever be replaced. I absolutely loathe Gwen, typical that she has to be the one to come out even better than she did before she went in. RTD, i hope you care about & read all your fans comments on the 3rd series, and i hope you feel incredible remorse for what you've done. I for one have always thought you were a w****r!

    • Andy says:

      Considering you are right so often, it's a shame you don't know how to spell it.

      • melxvengeance says:

        considering you're a mister know-it-all, you should know that people often make typing errors :)

        • Andy says:

          Less a typing error or spelling mistake and more a totally different word! But yeah, you have a point, so I apologise.

  62. pinkpolyanthus says:

    SO dont care!! No Jack and Ianto totally not interested! Even more if RTD can tell those fans who are upset to basically f off and watch Supernatural – works for me! I have no interest watching what that self obsessed arrogant …… writes!!! [fill in the gap with your own terms of endearment!]

  63. Anonymous says:

    I won't be watching. :[ Normally I get into a show if it doesn't kill off the only main characters I truly like. Torchwood did that, and it kind of makes me not want to invest any of my time into it – everyone on it will just end up dead by the end. Why bother?

  64. xtricks says:

    Well. This will be interesting – the BBC will have to build a whole new viewership since many of the previous t'wood viewers are not interested in the (percived) make-up of S4. I certianly am not interested – I have no desire to get emotionally invested in a show where the writers/producers/whoever seem to take personal joy in destroying whatever it is I'm emotionally invested in – because that's 'real'. I'm a 43 year old gay man whose lived most of my life in poverty in the US – I know what real is, thank you, I don't need someone else inflicting their fantasy version of it on me.

    • dean Ismail says:

      i see your point – i guess sci-fi is not supposed to be real? I on the other hand, am not usually a sci-fi fan. I happened to watch Torchwood one evening and completely amazed with the quality of the writing. And it weaves in moral and ethical dilemmas into its storylines. But, yes, I completely understand that some people would prefer to have more of a character continuation in the series they watch. To me, this is not something I care much about. Mainly the plots and quality of writing + acting.

  65. Jane Doe says:

    SO won't be watching this. After the utter horror that was CoE? Yeah, no thanks. Personally, I don't watch shows created by writers who have so very little respect for their fans and spend interview after interview patronizing, insult and making fun of the people that got you where you are. It's a FLUKE that RTD has created characters people care about and what does he do when people start caring about the WRONG characters? OFF WITH THEIR HEADS! *snort* He couldn't be playing more into the "I'm taking my toys and going home!" trope if he tried. *ugh* The other writers aren't much better, whining about the big mean fans who didn't LOVE the pointless death of Ianto (and no, despite what these idiots are smearing around the internet, we aren't upset because of the loss of "teh!ghey" on the show). Seriously, could they be more insulting? Ianto was a character people could relate to, a character much more wonderfully acted than Eve Myles is managing with Gwen (Mary Sue anyone?) and the fact that RTD had always intended Ianto to be a flat, one dimensional character, doesn't negate the fact that GDL breathed life into him and IANTO (not Ianto as Jack's sex toy) became a fan favorite, OVER precious Gwen *gasp* (How could we?!). With three of the main cast gone and Gwen, Jack and Rhys the only ones left? What in the HELL would possess anyone to actually watch this show? What do we have to look forward to? Is it like Eve Myles jokingly suggested, Gwen with a baby in one arm, firmly attached to her tit and a gun in the other hand? Cause honey, oh I can think of just about anything that would be more entertaining than that – watching grass grow perhaps! RTD made sure to shoot the remaining writers in the proverbial foot a dozen times over with CoE before he left for America – I hope they eat him alive and spit him back out. I could go on and on but really, what it comes down to is, if the writers don't respect the fans, then the smart fans don't waste their time getting shat on time and again. To those planning to watch, enjoy your drivel. Perhaps you'll be lucky enough for them to kill the remaining cast off in a spectacularly cheesy and pointless way in S4. Ta!

  66. GeneWallace says:

    For a sci-fi storyline alone, COE was very compelling, but I agree that within the universe that Torchwood and its characters existed in, it systematically destroyed many of the shows charming qualities. And as much as RTD refuses to admit, its that charm that prompted viewers to be forgiving when it came to plotholes, inconsistancies, or an overall bad episode; to be loyal to the series and allow the show to continue in its success.Losing Tosh, Owen, and Ianto so quickly… leaving Jack as emotionally broken as he currently is, was very gut-wrenching in ways I'm not sure I want to commit to in a 4th series. And yet, its not like I couldn't see the warning signs of this development. One example in COE was the depiction of Gwen: while she was definitely more likeable in this series, she underwent another radical jump in competancy or 'Super-Badassery' without any explanation of those sudden strengths. Kind of like how she was given leadership in S2 without any showing as to why, when other members have had more seniority, training, and have all together saved Gwen more times than she has actually reciprocated. When I see these sudden escalations in characterization, its usually a red flag of an impending character death or an intent to put said character front and center for positioning purposes. I usually see this type of attention given to characters who are about to be given their own spin-off.With this news of S4, I now feel certain that RTD will have Gwen leading a cast of new characters as the new Torchwood leader, possibly with Jack as the returning alien consultanat or somesuch. This might work for some viewers, but I don't think I'm one of them. I'll give it a try, but I really am not interested in what Torchwood has to offer from where it currently stands.

    • TammyJo Eckhart, PhD says:

      I agree that for a stand alone it was well done.The problem is that this wasn't a mini-series out of no where. It was the third series (or season) for an ongoing show. Had there been no previous show, had there been no publicity suggesting certain characters would be continuing, then it would have been pretty good.I don't it did a great job of portraying existing characters. I doubt Ianto would a have stopped Jack and the rest from sending back a signal as they did — why would Ianto even have been there and have we forgotten the things that Ianto has done in the past? Thus removing him wasn't necessary for the plot to play out as it did. Having him there would provide a reason for Jack to come back later after taking time off to heal. I'm not getting why Jack would come back to our time on Earth. He's immortal, he could just wait for a century or two and check things out again if he really wanted.Now that is a show I would watch — the further adventures of Jack.

      • dean Ismail says:

        i hope Torchwood comes back with a different leader. Is that bad of me? It's just that, to be based in this day and age, in terms of plot continuation, it doesn't make sense for Captain Jack to come back so quickly. But I will watch either way. With or without.

  67. Cate Pontoni says:

    that's great IF…and ONLY IF, They bring back Ianto Jones. There is just no point in a series 4 without the characters we love. I'm am NOT going to invest again only to have more characters die on me. BRING BACK IANTO JONES!

  68. Chrys Brooks says:

    I may or may not watch the first episode of Season 4, if they manage to come up with interesting new characters and a solid premise. However, I'll be keeping a close eye on the writing – if it ends up being as unsubtle as CoE, I doubt I'll watch the rest. However, if Steven Moffat manages to resurrect it and not turn it into the Jack and Gwen Show, I'll watch.

    • Andy says:

      But Steven is nothing to do with Torchwood. He only took over on Doctor Who.

    • David says:

      Steven Moffat is only producing Doctor Who. They did not think it was fair or appropriate to ask him to take over the three franchises, which is why as of last count SJA was ending with its next season and we weren't sure what was happening to Torchwood.Personally, I WILL watch Series 4, because if people had stopped to think for a moment Torchwood existed 20 years before Jack joined it and at least for thousands of years afterwards as we saw in The Satan Pit in Doctor Who. The Torchwood timeline can be picked up anywhere in that several thousand year window and it will still be Torchwood. Jack, because of his long endurance, can also have a role at any point in Torchwood's space/time existence. Now… that being said, there is also a way to bring Gareth David Lloyd back too. :) The same way that Gwen Cooper was played by the actress who played Gwyneth in The Unquiet Dead…. same justification of spatio-temporal whateveritwas….. a descendant of Ianto's blood line who ends up looking just like Ianto and gives Jack pause to reflect. For all we know this could end up being one of the greatest sci fi love epics ever. ;)

      • dkwilliams says:

        Yes, but just when we get invested in this "new Ianto", he'll get killed off. What's the point?

      • clavicular says:

        Ugh, except Ianto-descendant/look-alike is still not going to be Ianto, and to have Jack interested in him based purely on his ancestor would be like dating someone because they remind you of your ex but taken to an incredibly creepy extreme. But, uh, I agree with you that Torchwood has a lot of potential for different takes on future series and I'm interested in and reservedly optimistic about the future of this show.

    • dean Ismail says:

      I highly doubt, if there is going to be another season that it will be a "gwen and jack" show. I mean, they need more than the 2 people. Personally, I'd love to have Lois Habiba back, two more. Whoever. It'd be nice to have someone older too. Just in terms of the variety of character input.

  69. Anonymous says:

    Season 4, who cares. No Ianto, no viewing by me. Russell Davies has butchered enough, beside he told us all to go watch Supernatural.

    • Anonymous says:

      Yeah, what was that?! He made it sound like Supernatural wasn't truly a drama like his "superior" drama. Whatever, I was watching Supernatural before this show and I'll continue to watch it now that I'm not watching Torchwood anymore. Supernatural kills off their characters, but at least they have writers that do it in a way that it's ok and they are obsessed with making sure there aren't a whole lot plotholes. And if there are they at least revisit it and fix it and don't just forget about it

  70. Rick Taylor says:

    I'm surprised at everyone's reactions.After a REALLY uneven Series 2 that didn't get interesting until about the end, I for one, LOVED Children of Earth. The single over-arching storyline was well-written, acted and faced-paced.I hated to Ianto go but I think in four episodes Jack and Ianto's relationship went place it hadn't gone in the previous 2 Series. We learned more about what motived the characters.I gotta say, if the next series is half as good as Series 3, I'm in.I'm stunned at all the negative responses .

  71. Martina says:

    Torchwood? What Torchwood? There's nothing left, they'll keep using the name, but that's it. CoE took care of destroying everything that was Torchwood, and it wasn't even a Torchwood story. Quatermass with a dose of 24, politicians, civil servants and everybody around them being incompetent and acting stupid and cheap shocks and melodrama to cover the huge plot holes.What will it be? Mother Gwen and the redshirts? Gwen running around, saving the WHOLE WORLD carrying her baby would be so serious and realistic! or even better "completely broken Jack" coming back to Torchwood as "I wasn't so broken after all Jack"? Like that wouldn't cheapen what was already way cheap from CoE.I don't care what people say about series 1 and 2, those were Torchwood, and there were reasons to care and keep watching, I have characters to love, now there's nothing but shamelessly derivative, emotionally manipulative stories full of plot-holes and dumb politicians.

  72. Li says:

    Honestly, I quit watching after they killed off Owen and Tosh. I absolutely never liked Ianto (because the woobie guy sleeping with the boss just did nothing for me) and lost interest in Jack and Gwen. I might give the next season a shot now that Ianto's gone, though.

  73. Lisa Sullivan says:

    My god, people – I love(d) Ianto too, but it's FICTION. Some of you are sounding downright Annie Wilkesian.

    • Anonymous says:

      It certainly is… and lousy fiction it was. Plot holes, stealing from the Quatermass Experiment…

    • Martina says:

      What's your point? This is ComicMix.com, do you come here to talk about real life? People here are talking about a fiction show and its fictional characters, what's so "your god" about it?I'm sure absolutely everybody here is perfectly aware that Gwen, Jack, Rhys, Ianto et al. aren't real people and Torchwood is most definitely not real life. Don't need for you to worry.

      • Lisa Sullivan says:

        What's your point? This is ComicMix.com, do you come here to talk about real life?News about continued existence of a television program would seem to qualify as "real life" news, so in this case…yes! Not sure why my comment prompted you to stick up for "absolutely everybody here" (really? everybody?), but bully for you on that. I am most definitely not worried.

      • clavicular says:

        I agree with you, and fiction is important to me. If that's because I don't have a life then so be it, I'm perfectly happy with that state of affairs. I hate hearing people dismiss things as "just fiction".

        • Glenn Hauman says:

          I like fiction very much, and I happen to love Torchwood. My original comment was not dismissive of fiction lovers, but incredulous that so many people at the time I posted expressed so much raw anger at RTD for the choices he made for characters *he created*. This is why I referenced Annie Wilkes. Since you like fiction, you will remember the role she played in "Misery". I never mentioned anything about anyone else having (or lacking) a life – that's your own insecurities talking, I'm afraid.

          • clavicular says:

            Your original comment was "I love(d) Ianto too, but it's FICTION" It's not so much that you're being dismissive of fiction lovers, it's that you're being dismissive of people's reactions because "It's only a show" People get invested in these characters and they react when those characters are hurt. I'm not saying it's always reasonable but I understand why people feel that way. It bothers me when people dismiss someone's emotional reaction to something because "it's not real" And I guess when someone makes a comment in response to some of the more extreme response, it can feel like they're attacking everyone along that end of the spectrum. The anger at RTD wouldn't be so bad, I think, if he hadn't made dismissive comments about people's reaction to the death after the fact. Well, ok, for some people at least.I'm not a Stephen King fan, but I don't think it's fair to say just because someone is upset with the direction a book or show took – even if they express this anger very loudly online or to/about the creator – that they're going to go out and kidnap and torture the creator until the ending is fixed to their satisfaction. If you like "Misery" then you'll recall that Annie was suffering from psychological disorders on top of being unhappy with the book.The thing about lacking a life was a general comment about a common attitude I see towards people who enjoy fiction as more than just a passing thing to fill in time – I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you held this belief.

    • dean Ismail says:

      No?? really? Ianto is a fictional character???????????? You break my heart Lisa. So what about the 456? Guess that mean I can now let my nephews and nieces go back to school.

      • Lisa Sullivan says:

        *glances at date of original post/comments**looks at date of your response***eyerolls**Glad to have provided you a chance to exercise your sarcasm skills, dean Ismail – you could use the practice.

  74. sanguis says:

    Whatever. Although I'll admit that it's going to be interesting to see how many people will actually watch New!Torchwood.

  75. Miri says:

    I don't care. Torchwood died for me, when Ianto did. It was the last straw.

  76. Barbara says:

    Looking at the show in its entirety, Torchwood was NEVER great scifi. It always had more plot holes than plot (much like CoE) but we excused it BECAUSE of the great characters and realistic relationships. Series 4 will just be so much mediocre scifi, and I hated 'red shirts' in the original Star Trek, why on earth would I waste time watching it?

  77. Josh says:

    In the first episode, Gwen was supposed to show the rest of the crew how to feel again, including Jack. She did that. Eve Myles is very good. If you don't like Gwen and in fact hate her so much, why have you watched all this time? I am a fan of Torchwood, just not an obsessive one. Ianto was pretty ineffectual for me. I certainly didn't love our little teaboy. True, I didn't want him to buy the farm especially since I thought he really came into his own this time around with his sister, etc. Same with Tosh. She never had a whole hell of a lot to do, either. I feel bad for the actors. I'm sure they could have handled more heavy-duty stuff. I still think the big loss was Owen. Burn Gorman's performance was terrific and his character certainly had his ups and downs. I think the guy who played Frobisher gave an outstanding performance also in a very difficult, understated role. We barely knew ye, Torchwood but at least they didn't kill an icon and leave him buried under rocks on a deserted planet like someone I could name. It does suck about the Hub. That set just rocked! Anybody read the novels? Are they any good? They look pretty good.

  78. Patrick says:

    I really don't see why Russell T. Davies is bothering. He should just end out on a high note, instead of trying to scrounge up what's left of Torchwood. Of course that's assuming that Russell is continuing with the show and not moving on to other projects.Based on what I saw in Children of Earth and everything that I have heard from Russell and the actors, I can't for the life of me think of a reason why I would want to turn into more Torchwood. One of the primary messages that we received from the series is that no one is safe, except oddly enough for the two characters I appreciated the least. And now Russell is talking about bringing in a whole new set of 'interesting' characters, and I can't help but ask what's the point when his idea of drama and creativity seems to be killing of characters to distract viewers from major plot holes or to set things up so that his characters can appear on in bit parts on his other series. Torchwood was at its best mediocre in respects to science fiction television, but the fans were willing to overlook the show's inconsistencies and weaknesses because it provided a look into relationships in a way that had never quite been done before. With Children of Earth, I got the feeling that Russell was trying to create some British equivalent to '24,' but since he couldn't get the agreement of the BBC to do an original pilot, he decided to tailor Torchwood to the story, not the story to Torchwood. As a result we had the 456 instead of some terrorist cell, and in truth a terrorist cell would have been far more interesting and intimidating than the 456. After the end of Day 3, I'd already come to the conclusion that all of the Torchwood characters were only secondary actors in the story and it everything in the series seemed to go downhill from there as setting up the story came to depend on their incompetence and the re-writing of their personalities to suit Russell's ultimate goal. Was it thought provoking and interesting television? If only seen once and not actually thought over, then I would say yes. Much like any film by Michael Bay. Was it Torchwood? Not really. Russell just borrowed the characters for his new show.

    • Anonymous says:

      Completely agree. It seems mr. Davies had ready screenplay and just inserted Torchwood heroes. If to replace Jack to Frobisher in Day Five (he sacrifices his daughter and then commits suicide) nothing will change. Without Torchwood all plot holes will disappear. And it could be real drama. Torchwood was unnecessary in this story.

  79. Anonymous says:

    I will be watching. I immensely enjoyed Children of Earth.

  80. Andy says:

    Torchwood is possibly my favourite tv show ever. I am totally obsessed and a big fanboy. But I am truly ashamed to be a Torchwood fan, and associate myself with these moaning idiots. COE was truly brilliant and JB has already said he will come back, so why keep questioning it?? RTD is a genius and I honestly feel so bad that he seems to have attracted all these childish fans. Torchwood 4 is a fresh start and exactly what was needed. Every year when the doctor gets a new companion does everyone moan and stop watching???

    • Anonymous says:

      Season 4 full of plot-holes and stolen plots? No, thank you.

      • Jackie Stone says:

        or just reusing the same plots just with the new characters? who will probably act just like Ianto, Owen and Tosh? Nope, no how, no way. At least on Doctor Who each companion and Doctor is different.

    • Judy says:

      Well, Doctor Who rarely kills off the companions. There is always a chance of seeing them again such as Rose, Donna, Martha, Micky, Sarah Jane and even Jack. I also will give series 4 a chance. But alot of the magic went when Ianto died so unnecessarily and I don't know that they can bring it back for me. And in spite of what RTD implied, the fans and their feelings are important. And the constant killing off of beloved characters only alienates those fans. Yes, there will be many more people that don't care about that, they only want the show as a simple form of entertainment with no real feeling invested in it and that's fine, but those of us that have invested emotion in the characters should not be discounted as 'moaning idiots'. Shame on you.

      • Andy says:

        I too invested time, emotion and money. But I am just excited to be able to do it all over again with new characters. The idiots part of my comment is purely based on the fact that without RTD we wouldn't have had those characters in the first place and I trust him to find new characters and stories for us to enjoy. And the idiots who won't buy any more books or watch the show again. How do you know you won't like it until you try?

        • Lukita says:

          "And the idiots who won't buy any more books or watch the show again. How do you know you won't like it until you try? "It's called reading reviews written by other people who watched the show, you should try that sometimes.

          • Andy says:

            You honestly decide whether you like something based on the views of other people? That's really quite sad. You should try forming yourown opinion some time. And I am talking about series 4 and the three books due in October. Nobody has reviewed them yet, and you never know but you might like them…

          • scrobette says:

            As the purchasing librarian in a large metropolitan system, I have been given advance copies of the Oct. books… I have read them all and WILL NOT be purchasing them or the CoE DVD for my collection… IMHO TW ended in S2… You can watch your S4… I am investing neither time nor money into whatever slop RTD doles out as the "new" Torchwood.

          • Andy says:

            That's just strange, especially with Ianto being in these books, I am struggling to see how they are different to any others…

          • scrobette says:

            It's quite simple… I will not spend one schilling on ANY Torchwood merchandise.

          • Andy says:

            No, thats because you are cheap. You have already read them. That kind of defeats the point of your little protest. Fair enough, they don't get your money, but it does make you a hypocrite. Have fun with that.

          • Anonymous says:

            "RE" your next post: shame on you! Using personal injury…rtd is going to stay with such a small company of his "devoted" fans – just what he deserved!

          • Andy says:

            What does that even mean? What personal injury??

          • Anonymous says:

            Totally agree!

          • Lukita says:

            I decide if I should spend time and money on things based on their reviews. Maybe I would like them, but I can also wait for reviews.

          • Anonymous says:

            Honestly, I can't tell you how many times I've walked out of a movie theatre wisihing I'd paid attention to the bad reviews and saved myself eight bucks. So yeah, I believe in reading reviews and taking them into consideration when making decisions about how to spend my money and time. I will give series 4 a shot, but I think I'm amongst a fairly large number of fans who will be ex-fans if they don't handle the first few episodes with a little more sensitivity.

          • TammyJo Eckhart, PhD says:

            Do you honestly watch and read every little thing that comes out? Really?

  81. Rick Taylor says:

    One of the things I've grown to love/expect about the British TV shows is the unpredictability vs the boring US shows with the same crappy stuff EVERY week.Embrace the change…If you don't, be happy with the same old same old.I was riveted to Children of Earth.Can't remember the last time that happen.Get over it fanboyz!

  82. Hannah says:

    It's amazing how many people seem to honestly believe that they were entitled to series after series of Jack/Ianto and that RTD is evil and a terrible writer and a traitor to and a hater of all of Torchwood fandom because CoE did not conform to what they personally wanted to see happen. If people seriously can't handle the fact that characters die or otherwise leave and sometimes they're characters that they don't want to leave, how do they ever manage to enjoy any work of fiction?At this stage, why are people making any assumptions about the fourth series, including that Gwen will be in it? The show hasn't been running long enough for us to determine who or what the constants are, and people can bitch all they like about how Gwen is RTD's favourite character and that everything is carefully calculated to bring Jack and Gwen together (steadfastly ignoring the total lack of any romantic or sexual tension between Jack and Gwen in series three, apparently), but that doesn't mean she will always be there, even if those claims were true. I will watch series four, and decide where I stand with Torchwood when I actually have a clue where it's going.

    • Gilly says:

      People are angry because they expected Torchwood story, not political thriller about Frobisher and bad Goverment.

      • Hannah says:

        Really? If Ianto hadn't died and Jack hadn't left, do you really think anyone would complain about the plot? In a show with storylines which range from sex-obsessed aliens to time travel to the Devil to the manipulation of memories to waking the dead to huge mayflies living in people's stomachs, why the hell would a story about a corrupt government drop off the spectrum of what people deem a "Torchwood story"?

        • Anonymous says:

          Why did this story not seem like Torchwood? Because it reduced the team to supporting roles for most of the time? Because "The 21st century is when it all changes, and Torchwood is ready"? Um, no. (At least they had the decency to take off introduction sequence…)

          • Hannah says:

            Because it reduced the team to supporting roles for most of the time?Did it? See, I think that statement is fundamentally incorrect, so we'll have to agree to disagree there.Because "The 21st century is when it all changes, and Torchwood is ready"? Um, no.I assume you're referring to the fact that Torchwood didn't resolve the crisis without people getting hurt in order to do it? Right, because that's never happened before.

          • Anonymous says:

            We can agree to disagree on the first point.On the second, I didn't mean they weren't ready because they didn't resolve the crisis with no one killed or injured. That happens. I meant they were unprepared for a major crisis in a number of ways that really, they should have dealt with before considering themselves ready:Their contact in government was apparently limited to Mr. Frobisher, and access to him was easily blocked. Yea, they're outside the government as far as following laws is concerned but many alien threats in the Doctor Who/Torchwood universe happen on a fairly wide scale so if they were ready, you'd think they'd have more ways "in" to give and get help.They had no backup hub until Ianto found one.And no backup location meant no backup stash of cool equipment. Lucky Gwen and Rhys had been playing with those contacts!They apparently had no alternate identities with associated funds, so they were reduced to petty theft. Was Owen the only one that had different IDs, and the capability died with him?They had no emergency meeting place set up in case the hub was destroyed or was locked down with them outside. Really? I mean, geez, my family isn't a secret organization and we've agreed on an emergency meeting place. Of course, we live in earthquake country, but I daresay earthquakes strong enough to level homes built with modern building codes are less common than alien incursions in Cardiff. (Thank heavens!)"…and Torchwood is ready"? No.

          • Hannah says:

            Yeah, fair enough. So when you next watch episodes from series one and two, will knowing that they don't have any of those precautions in place ruin your enjoyment of them?

          • Anonymous says:

            Oh hell no. But did it ruin some of the drama of Children of Earth for me? Yes, because to move the story forward, RTD decided they had to be so bumbling and I found it irritating. Hey, it's his show. He can make the characters what he wants to make them. I would have preferred that he hadn't traded in their brains this season, though, and stuck with "Torchwood is ready," even if he'd kept the same outcome.

          • TammyJo Eckhart, PhD says:

            That is an excellent point. This CoE thing basically proved the entire premise of the series to be wrong. I'd love a show set in the past of Torchwood as an organization or it's distant future to see how they have or will change but continuing from CoE? No, not for me and my family.

        • Gilly says:

          Sorry, but I don't care about Ianto. I liked old show not this cheap drama with big plot holes. Because the only plot hole in CoE is Torchwood. Without Torchwood characters it would be great drama.

          • Hannah says:

            Fair enough (though I have to wonder how you've stuck with Torchwood this long), but based on the reactions I've seen, you're in the minority with regards to what you found wrong with CoE.

        • Anonymous says:

          If Ianto hadn't died and Jack was still on Earth, 'Children of Earth' would have ended on a note of hope. For me, if it had ended on that hope, it would have been worth it. Because I've found the main thread throughout Torchwood was always that, throughout the darkest of times, there is always some sort of light – some sort of hope.

          • Jackie Stone says:

            After all, Jack could have chosen to leave anyway, because he felt guilt/remorse/etc and left Ianto. Or Ianto could have left Jack, telling him that this time it had hit too close to home, Ianto had to protect his family or couldn't deal with the fact that Jack had to sacrifice his own grandson. There would have been hope not only for their relationship (once the initial pain had dulled) but also for Torchwood. Gwen rebuilding on her own when she has a baby on the way? Riiiight…. Lois Habiba may be capable, but not that capable. Whay exactly does Jack have to come back to? Nothing, really. His only remaining family hates him.

    • Anonymous says:

      i forgot RTD IS GOD, NEVER CRITICISE ANYTHING HE DOES OMG. he's a brilliant writer in his own mind. it's not about entitlement, but his crappy treatment of all of torchwood. so much potential, so many promises, only to take it nowhere and just ending it.

      • Hannah says:

        Right, because… obviously not hauling him over the coals because of the decisions he made means I must worship him and think everything he writes is golden. It can't just be me being rational, or anything.Don't pretend it's not about entitlement. There would be nowhere near as huge a backlash if Gwen had died and Ianto and Jack had taken off for the stars together – and yet that would have left Torchwood (the institute) in even worse shape than it currently is. As for RTD "just ending it", did you miss the bit where it's being renewed for a fourth series?

    • Anonymous says:

      I think the reason people expected a series of Jack/Ianto is because RTD and the BBC marketed the show heavily to the gay community. Over many interviews and promo shots, and so on, it was said that there would be progress in the Jack/Ianto relationship. I suspect there would be far less outcry if people didn't think they'd been lied to.

      • Hannah says:

        The relationship did progress. It took as big a step as it possibly could in the space of five extremely eventful days. The fact that it didn't progress in the direction people wanted it to doesn't make the producers liars. Looking at the comments here and elsewhere – that "The show died with Ianto!" and "Ianto is the heart of the team!" and "RTD is a homophobe!" and "It's all because everything has to be about Gwen!" – I'd imagine that actually we could have been told the Jack/Ianto relationship was going to suffer a tragic blow and the fan reaction would have been just as bad.

        • Anonymous says:

          Maybe this is another place where we agree to disagree (the other being whether the team was relegated to a supporting role in at least the first 3+ days of the series).From your perspective, how did the relationship progress? Here's my perspective: In CoE, and we got one kiss but no real caring. One kiss does not relationship progress make. Neither does depicting two men without any real emotional connection: We didn't see Jack really smile at Ianto. We didn't see Jack be grateful for all the things Ianto does for him. We didn't see them use "warm" body language towards each other or heck, even a willingness to sit next to each other on the couch! None of these things would have cost a lot of time if they were in the story.CoE showed Jack being extremely unwilling to open up to Ianto regarding personal information, and we were shown that Ianto might never opened up to Jack either – we don't know if he ever told Jack his father's real occupation, although we know he didn't tell Gwen. Being that closed off (or potentially that closed off, in Ianto's case, since we really don't know) is also not a sign of progress in a relationship.Is it progress that one of them died and the other one cried? By the end of day 4, I had seen so little real positive emotion between the two men that Jack's breakdown seemed almost unwarranted. So, no, I didn't think that was a sign of "progress" either.

          • Hannah says:

            It seemed to me that Ianto especially became much clearer about where he stood with Jack and what Jack was to him. To me, that's as legitimate a progression as Jack proposing marriage, because when talking about progression in terms of the progression of an intimate relationship, I think it's about the evolution and increased clarity of one person's feelings for another, and this does not mean and should not be expected to mean that those feelings are necessarily going to develop positively.

          • Anonymous says:

            Please tell me you understand that there is a lot of space between "positive development" and "marriage proposal" because while I wanted to see the first, I in no way meant to convey that I wanted or expected to see the second!I think it's about managing expectations. If Jack wasn't into Ianto, which is what I felt I was shown up until the last part of day 4, then fine. (It wouldn't – didn't – set up Jack's breakdown very well but it's a legitimate way for the relationship to go.) BUT in that case, it was unfair for the preseason interviews to talk about upcoming positive developments in their relationship, such as the "development of trust" and Jack's becoming more of a "one-man man."And just in case I'm getting you thinking along the lines of "marriage proposals" again – NO. I know people who are happily involved with totally charming, incorrigable flirts so I think that they could have shown Jack becoming more caring / involved with Ianto while still keeping his basic "I'll come on to anything including houseplants" personality.

          • Hannah says:

            No, of course the marriage thing is not based on anything you said; it's an extreme example of what would generally be considered positive progression in a relationship, and I maintain that becoming clearer about your feelings, even negative ones, is just as much of a progression as the most enormous positive progression imaginable.I don't remember Jack so much as flirting with anyone who wasn't Ianto in this, and it was clear by Day Four that Ianto absolutely trusted Jack. If the BBC released any statement prior to CoE airing that promised a lot of focus on, and a lot of specifically positive progression of, the Jack/Ianto relationship, obviously you can consider yourself lied to. I never saw any such thing, but if you did then that effectively ends this debate.

          • TammyJo Eckhart, PhD says:

            This is one thing that bothered me. We had such little time with the characters that Jack’s reaction to Ianto’s dying, promising the 456 everything they wanted if they didn’t take Ianto, made no sense to me within the structure of the show to that point. Fanfic and fan desires aside, I just didn’t see enough evidence that their relationship was that important yet. Thus Jack’s reaction both then and with leaving struck me as very weird.

            The idea that Jack left because things were emotionally hard did not fit with the Jack we had been shown to that point in either the series or Coe. We’ve seen Jack leave to fight an enemy and leave to find the Doctor in the hopes of getting a “cure” for him immortality.

            While he may have returned in series 2 with a “I came back for you” said to Ianto then to the entire team, we did not have enough time and development to make me believe that Jack cared enough to freak out with the 456 or to take off of Earth.

          • Anonymous says:

            Excellent points, all the way around. I think it was easy to get caught up in "fan desires" and forget that what RTD had given us in the past didn't necessarily support the reactions that we got from Jack, given we spent half of the time during CoE with other charactes (Frobisher, Greene, etc.)

          • Jackie Stone says:

            And that one kiss seemed to me as a way to distract Ianto enough so that Jack could get him on the lift to safety.

  83. Anonymous says:

    What's all this Ianto nonsense, he was rubbish!!!! Underwritten, predictable and in a totally unbelievable, forced for TV relationship. The show was brilliant though. I'm glad they killed off Ianto, we'll hopefully get some better characters next season.

    • Anonymous says:

      that can easily be said about ALL the characters. ESPECIALLY GWEN AND JACK'S HORRIBLE UST. if tw is all about dying young, why does gwen live? the show is only brilliant if you don't think about it for more than a few minutes.

      • Gilly says:

        And Gwen is older than Ianto :)

        • Anonymous says:

          That doesn't make any sense. xD She's still young, she has yet to grow old and have a nice long life.

      • Anonymous says:

        Because, gasp, not everyone dies. You'd single out Tosh and pick on her if she lived and Gwen died.Now play nice, children.

  84. Anonymous says:

    Let's face it. Torchwood was a BAD show. It was BAAAAD. But it was a lovably bad show. TW fans deserve a lot of freaking credit for finding the good in it and sticking with it. Through fandom, TW was quite frankly better than it really was. The John Frobisher Story was riveting, but CoE as a TW story was not. They weren't even the central focus of the whole thing except at the beginning and at the very end. There have been innumerable stories about a team being targeted by the government, systematically driven apart and underground, reuniting, and building themselves up. Others have cited Quatermass. As for what Frobisher did to his family, see the French movie Time Out (there's also another movie with Daniel Auteuil that's very similar, but I can't remember the name). There are even so many similarites to Doctor Who Season 3. RTD needs to leave all his DW toys behind, because he ran out of stories a long time ago.CoE is proof that TW could have been so much more coherent and cohesive. We could have better developed characters and relationships, so when they die, we wouldn't be so hung up about it. This is what angers me.

  85. Anonymous says:

    I'm not interested in a fourth series. I could forgive the plot holes in the first two series because the show was a bit of fun. Series 3 came across as trying too hard to be serious and dramatic without sufficient tools to do it. And it's a shame RTD hasn't quite mastered endings because the last two episodes were very poor in comparison with the first three. In fact, the Torchwood elements of the series were the parts which actually let the entire series down. The scenes with the government, with Frobisher etc. had shades of excellence, yet the Torchwood team seemed almost tacked on to story and didn't quite fit. Which is a shame. I think without the Torchwood element, CoE would have been much better than it was. Though it would still have had a long way to go to match the storytelling of other series which have done the "serious drama" genre better for longer.And I don't get what people are saying about fans having to accept that the cast will always be vulnerable to being killed off. If that were the case and there was a revolving cast policy, okay people would know what sort of show it is. Because this isn't unusual, many shows rely on the story rather than the social aspect. But when you've a character like Gwen who will always survive, whose family will always be fine, and who will always come out of the danger on top, then it kinda feels a little unfair on the rest of them. I'm not a Gwen-hater at all, thought she was great, but I can see why people are critical that RTD has one rule for some characters and another rule for his "favourites" who people are not allowed to criticise.Anyway, this is probably a little more negative than I intended. Without the Torchwood association, I think this would have been a much better piece of drama which, as a fan of the franchise, pains me to say! So no series 4 for me. I'm not particularly interested in the way in which it's going, but that's just a personal opinion. I know it's definitely not universally shared. So I hope all of you who are excited for a fourth series get a good one. May not be my cup of tea, but I'm sure it will please a lot of people.

    • dkwilliams says:

      I agree – the government people, Frobisher in particular, were riveting and well played, and I cried more when Frobisher killed his family and himself than at any other part, even Ianto's death. By comparison, Torchwood – "the alien experts" – were incompetent at any thing other than theft and dramatic rescues of cement-encased people. If they'd been replaced by original characters, Everyman type of people working against the corrupt government, people like Lois, it could have been so much more.

  86. Christina Low says:

    As saddened as I was at Ianto's passing, I am thrilled to hear that there will be a fourth series. As a recent new comer to the Torchwood universe, I was already broken by Owen and Toshiko's passing when I heard about T:CoE/watched it. Losing main characters is a given in almost any action packed tv series, and you simply just have to shed your tears and move on, always remembering those char. that you loved. I wish Russel T. Davies a lot of luck and await his next move. (always loved the Doctor Who episodes in which he was the writer for the story

  87. Anonymous says:

    I don't care.

  88. Anonymous says:

    What a pity the show killed any desire I had left to watch further seasons with the trainwreck that was CoE. :)

  89. Lukita says:

    I'll love a season 4 of Quatermass, oh wait, X-Files? Outer Limits? 24? Buffy? I'll get it right eventually.Maybe just maybe, there wouldn't have been such a huge backlash from the fandom or feeling betrayed by the writers/producer, if we weren't given a bait and switch regarding CoE, months of waiting and promises that the fans would love the Jack/Ianto in S4. Then we were given some cliche ridden story of Ianto coming out gay to his family on Monday to die on Thursday, not just any old death, but he was fridged so Jack can angstfully go off and kill his grandson. It's a horrible way to treat the fans who's been loyal and forgave a lot of plot holes and inconsistency in S1 & S2.

  90. Chenoa Mills says:

    With no Ianto, I won't be watching.

  91. Anonymous says:

    Not interested. Clearly some of you find this concept incomprehensible, but I watch sci-fi for the *characters.* (I might also add that I watch mystery, romance, comedy, and yes, SERIOUS drama for the characters too.) I thought killing Owen and Tosh was a mistake, but killing Ianto was the last straw. I have no interest in a TV series that treats its characters as cardboard placeholders, just waiting to be bumped off the moment their writers feel the need to up the angst meter. Hope to see Torchwood's departed (and JB) in other roles, though; truly a great bunch of actors.

    • Jackie Stone says:

      Even with characters I loath, I can find something good about them. As such, even if Andy (whom I'm not crazy about, mainly because he's kinda flat) died I would have been distraught. Characters help me relate to a show. If the plot is flat, boring and rehashed I can usually rely on the characters to make it fun. In "Sleeper" I personally found the plot dull (having read lots of books along the same premise) but the scene with Owen, Ianto and Tosh when they were in the hub made up for it.

  92. Anonymous says:

    Who cares? I most certainly won't be watching it. RTD destroyed everything Torchwood was to me, everything I loved about it. I expected to see a new beginning – "The end is where we start from." What I got instead was death, destruction and hopelessness, OOC-ness *and* sloppy writing. Day One was brilliant – and then everything went horribly wrong. Saying that Torchwood was picked up for another season is bulls**t. There's nothing left of Torchwood to be picked up.

    • Jackie Stone says:

      Yeah, why have Ianto and Gwen survive after Gray's attack, help Jack help the Doctor and then… pfftt! Bye Ianto, Jack's too screwed up to stay, go be happy with Rhys and baby Gwen? Why not have killed Ianto when Tosh and Owen died or at least made Rhys get badly hurt?

  93. Merdiya says:

    Ok, if there is a season for, then i don`t want Gwen there.why does everybody die but Gwen????? I mean hallo, Suzie, Toshiko, Owen, now Ianto???? this is no miss Gwen`s show. Captain Jack harkness is the only one who has to stay at the Series because it is made for him. but not for gwen. from the end of season 3 on, i am going to hate gwen more and more, not just because of Ianto`s (my favorite characters) death. I love Ianto. If He don`t coming back, then i want a completly new Team for Jack and Torchwood. Gwen is pregnent, she is happy with Rhys , now she got a little happy family, so we can end up her story too. If Eve Miles/Gwen is there in Season 4 than i want Gareth David Lloyd/Ianto there too.

  94. Anonymous says:

    To all those who praise CoE as great drama-have you actually watched all of it? Well, yes, great drama until they started getting to the so-called conclusion. Swiss cheese has less (plot)holes than this "great drama". It was well acted and well directed for 3 1/2 episodes-then it went downhill. Oh the acting etc. was still great, it's just that the plot doesn't add up and is sacrificed to "character moments" that are just supposed to make us feel bad. What a waste. (My professional interest here: I studied linguistics and literature. I KNOW how to recognise good drama and dissect it.)Add to this the fact that RTD destroyed EVERYTHING that "made" the show-its setting, characters, and gadgets-what the heck would I want series 4 for?I can just as well watch Spooks (which I quite like, mind you), RTD can take off on his high horse to the US.Yours truly,Rhian.

    • Anonymous says:

      It is not a piece of great drama, but it was better drama that most of the drama on tv. As to gadgets – the rift still exists and more gadgets will appear. I think people have to give the writers of this series more credit, they will find a way to make season 4 interesting even if Gwen is the main character. While that does not sound very appealing at this point, I have faith in the ability of the writers to put a good season together. Hopefully the kid and the husband will fade back into obscurity (and Capt Jack will return). Although I would wager that in season 4 they will hint that Rhys is not the father.

  95. Rob says:

    Wow — i have never seen such a vicious reaction for good news.Get overyourselves fanboys because the majority of these comment start to veer into sterotype (without the fact that most of you have long since removed yourselves from your mothers basement and still think Wizard humor is cool.)Torchwood is still out there — Series 4 could concievably have Gwen, Lois, Martha, Mickey,Rhys and Andy(the radio plays showed he could be a viable member of the team and judgeming by his actions in COE –he should join) and some new and old characters (why not Captain John? Jenny? Sally Sparrow?)This is very silly in your reactionsThe rift is still there. This isn't the end –get over yourselves

  96. Jackie Stone says:

    Russell T. Davies has insulted and belittled the very people who made the success of his show Torchwood possible: the fans. When there is such a public outcry like the one that has occurred following the pointless, senseless, needless death of Ianto Jones and the way that Jack abandoned Earth and Gwen, I could care less if Davies makes any new series. He is disrespectful to the fans, who have pointed out many ways to bring Ianto Jones back. Science Fiction is a lot like the Fantasy genre in where ANYTHING is possible. Check out http://www.saveiantojones.com/, which shows the fans' devotion as well as a video that shows the various ways that Ianto can be brought back. Besides, there was so much mystery surrounding the character that there could easily be an extraterrestrial intervention to bring him back. If he and Jack both stay away/dead, then Davies will lose many fans and his own "popularity" will soon die out. Watch him find a way to kill the Doctor and end that series too…

  97. Wingslapped says:

    I watched Torchwood for the characters. After Tosh, Owen, and Ianto died in such quick succession, there isn't any reason left for me to watch. Also, killing off 3 of the main characters for drama's sake stunk of bad writing and trying too hard to pull the audience's emotional chords.

    • Jackie Stone says:

      You know, I think RTD is afraid to bring anyone else back. He's obviously not creative enough to attempt to write a story and reason why Ianto, Tosh or Owen comes back. He figures that Owen and the Risen Mitten (II) was the only time that anyone could be revived. He must be running out of ideas.

  98. gman says:

    Good grief, I wonder at the mental state of some of the people who've commented here. People who seem to imagine that Torchwood should be some sort of cosy teatime love-in without anything scary or confusing like actual danger or tragedy. Maybe you should stick with Doctor Who, or better still the Sarah Jane Adventures, if that's all you want. Both fine shows in their own right, but not challenging in the same way.Jack Harkness is a fundamentally tragic character. Right there from the start we learned that he was immortal and that in the end, he loses everyone he cares about. Now a lot of viewers seem to have finally comprehended this core characteristic of the guy, and it's left them bawwing because they've realised it's not very nice. It seems like RTD's real mistake was overestimating some of his audience.

  99. Jackie Stone says:

    As for all those complaining about the "anti-Gwen" people out there, while Gwen is not my favorite character, she's definitely not my least favorite. All of the characters have their good and bad points. I didn't like Ianto until the episode "To the Last Man" (series 2) and although I LOVE that he and Jack got together, that wasn't why I like his character. he endured so much in such a short time (dad dying, Canary Wharf, Lisa, Jack leaving, Jack's feelings for Gwen, etc…) and yet he managed to find something good amidst all the tragedy. Gwen and Ianto are BOTH the heart of Torchwood as they force Jack to face his demons. I like how Gwen always makes Jack think about the humans ("Sleeper") and how her relationship with Rhys develops. Gwen is also shown to not be perfect…. hello? her affair with Owen ring a bell?? But the fact that she did despicable things like cheating and lying to her boyfriend and yet she was the only one to get a happy ending is unnerving for me. Why couldn't Owen or Tosh have been spared? Why couldn't Ianto have lived and (as much as I hate the thought) chosen to leave Jack and Torchwood (Jack could've retconned him after they met, or after Cyberwoman but didn't) instead of dying (such as "I can't do this anymore Jack. I'll always love you but I can't be with you anymore." sort of thing), why couldn't Jack have been left with a little more hope? And also! Look at what Jack's lost– his father, Gray (TWICE!! He was stored, frozen, in the HUub when it blew up but no mention of that anywhere), Estelle Cole, his wife (in that faded photo), Alex (and co.), Alice's mom, Alice and her son, Owen, Tosh, the Doctor and Rose, possibly Martha, Ianto (he couldn't even say those 3 little words….), now Rhys and Gwen…. The Face of Boe is going to be such a lonely, broken soul.

  100. celzmccelz says:

    No way am I watching now that Ianto's dead.

  101. dkwilliams says:

    Prior to this past week, I would have been dancing at this news. Now, I'm not sure I'll be watching S4. The Hub is gone – literally (according to reports, Doctor Eleven's TARDIS is now occupying that space), 4 of 5 characters are gone, the Rift Detector is gone, and so much more. If they remain at "HUB 2" near London, even Cardiff and Wales will be gone, and I loved that this wasn't set in one small area of England (London) like the Doctor seems to be when Earth-bound. Even if Jack comes back, he will literally be the only character I'll ever be able to get attached to, and that because I know he's immortal. I like Gwen but not enough to watch a show built around her, and they keep pushing the Jack/Gwen relationship when they have no chemistry and Gwen/Rhys practically light up the screen, they are so good together. If they push the "Gwack" with her now married and a mother, I will be extremely disgusted. Yet I don't want to get involved in Rhys because he might be the next to go. Same with Andy or Lois or anyone else they bring onboard. And why watch an ongoing serial if you can't let yourself get involved with the characters? Is there any other ongoing drama, not just Sci-Fi but any genre, where they kill off major characters every year? (Lost and Heroes, yes, but that's why I never watched them.) What if the X-Files had said "we need a ratings boost, it's the end of the 2nd season – let's kill off Scully!" That's the point of series TV – to get to know these characters over the arc of a Season. When the creator has no commitment to his characters – is even gleeful about killing them off – then what's the point in caring? It has nothing to do with pretty boys or sex, despite what RTD thinks – it has to do with being able to trust the creator to deliver the goods promised. And I just don't trust the Torchwood production team to do that anymore.

  102. Anonymous says:

    To all those complaining about CoE, you have to remember something. You may feel that as part of the Torchwood fandom you are a large group,it's easy to do, there are obviously far more people involved than you could know.But, the internet fandom is a only a small part of the viewership. Most people watch the show,but that is as far as their involvement goes.A smaller number will buy the DVDs. Only a fraction of them make up those who post to forums,write blogs,fan-fiction etc. And the Ianto fans are only some of them.When you feel surrounded by other fans who are on the same wavelength as you, talking about the same things, it's easy to feel you are part of a mass movement-you aren't. Much of the audience hadn't even seen Torchwood before. And though you would like to feel otherwise,being a 'long time fan' doesn't show up in the viewing figures.

    • Anonymous says:

      ok i accept that i may be in a minority and that the tw camp is divided into, save ianto, keep ianto dead and i dont care what you do, but surely being in the minority doenst mean i have no right to give my opinion and object to the turn of events. i am more shocked by rtds reaction to some of his fans than i am to coe itself. He should feel complimented, he created ianto and some of his fans got really emotionally involved, well done rtd. cant he at least be polite to us and not laugh in our faces. surely he could have just stopped at 'sorry but i wanted him dead' his later comments about 'poetry' 'supernatural' and '9 packets of coffee' are just meant to belittle us.

  103. Tom Fitzpatrick says:

    Just finished watching the end of T:CoE, and as disturbing and horrifying the magnitude of the series was, can't wait to see Season 4. Just to see where they go next.Come what may, may what come.Que sera, sera.

  104. Anonymous says:

    It would have to be set in the future so government people can forget about Jack…i think…maybe it'll be Gwen's daughter played by Eve Myles…i'm curious enough to watch an episode or but will dump it for another show in a second. Would love to say "definitely not watching" but can't. How can RTD say that "dead is dead" when he brought back Suzie & Owen and apparently the Master (though it could be the Doctor's life flashing before his eyes) but dead is not "really dead" in sci-fiWould love for 1,000 yr old Jack to come back to rescue Ianto (creating a paradox)…ah, well. moving on to other shows [though not many good ones left :( ]

    • Andy says:

      The government people are not after Jack or Gwen any more.

      • Anonymous says:

        no, they aren't. My point was that if set in near future then Jack will have to deal with a government that knows about Jack's ineffectiveness in solving problems (to them & Jack himself) Jack got Ianto and the people in Thames House (?!?) killed so why should they listen to him…not because "I [Jack] have experience – they (gov) didn't see positive results from that experience before. Not the best situation for return of JACK the Hero [ok, that IS assuming Jack would come back to be a hero]So it should be in the future 150/200 years, new problems, new tech, new government(s)

        • Anonymous says:

          i agree with you, but can it move fwd in time, isnt the tag 'the 21st century is when it all changes'

  105. Mark Grindell says:

    I have read many of these comments. I agree with very many of the people who say that now Torchwood has been so picked to bits, and so thoroughly at that, that essentially, if it DOES come back at all, it is simply an arbitrary construction with a copyrighted name tag.So?I can understand and …verily… sympathise with the indifference and annoyance.And it brings up several problems. I don't think that all these have really been spotted. Firstly, now that everyone is dispersed and/or dead, Russel T Davis, if he DOES produce a new series, far from being the great plot maestro, is in now logically no different position to any other informed fan. So he produced the original series? So? now that it is now declared as literally over, what blessed difference does it amke what involvement he ever had in it? He has now officially killed it, and from that null point, anything could happen and it may as well indeed come from the fan community.I haven't written anything for Torchwood, but I do recognise that there are some excellent writers out there who coud beat RTD any day with their hand tied behind their backs. And, while you are at it, try to get the BBC to get rid of their other favorite pets, too. Now that I WOULD like to see. Secondly,. there is the idea that there is this venerable thing called DRAMA that we must all unquestionably respect. We coud have one extreme in which we have a long, drawn out sitcom, but the objection to that is not all that sound; in real life (and I have served with some pretty gung ho characters from time to time), well… real life trundles on and yet there is substantial human interest; you just have to have eyes to see and ears to hear.What I most certainly did NOT see in COE was the real pain and anguish that the team members would actually feel at losing their colleagues. This would, in real life. occupy far, FAR more space and words than we actually saw. Yet all we have is a faux realism where all that happens is yet another intolerable crisis and another death.You cannot have it both ways.If you want your drama to have real content, you may kill off people, but for this there have to be CONSEQUENCES; if there are not, all you are doing is playing a dumb confidence trick with your audience, making them believe that real boys don't cry and all of that idiotic stuff from the really bad old days. In this case, you might as well have Lethal Weapon, in which the body count ratchets mindlessly up and no-one cares. I can assure you in, say, a real army unit, real people DO care, and they care enormously when there are deaths; it rips you to bits.And grief lasts a long time, and comes at unexpected times and in strange disguises.I suspect that the next series will indeed come around eventually, but will not be a work of great conviction, and be replete with the laziest form of writing and quasi-neo realism. I can tell you what I think is tremendous writing, if you are interested – the film Ghandi – and the book by Ben Elton called Blast from the past. There you go.

  106. Anonymous says:

    I would totally get behind Season 4 if it was about Torchwood 4. It's about time they became unlost.

    • Jackie Stone says:

      Hear hear! Only way to go, if you ask me. And they could bring Jack on it once in a while, with advice or something.

  107. Anonymous says:

    Most of these comments are absurd, in my opinion. So many of you are claiming that you will NOT watch season four, all because Ianto died. To tell you the truth, I was heartbroken that Owen and Toshiko died at the end of season two. Owen was my favorite character out of everybody, but I still watched season three! And it turned out great! After, what three years, with this cast, I'm glad to be able to watch something new. The old episodes from season one and two were my favorite, and I'm sad that the hub is gone, but the show must go on. The rift doesn't just die because Ianto did. I am so interested about how they will take Gwen's pregnancy (and I might be the only one in the universe, but I LOVE Gwen! She's my second favorite, after Owen. :P ) and what they will do about a new team. I would love to see it start from scratch, too.The reason that I have this mind-set, I'm guessing, is because I randomly stumbled across the first episode of season one while flipping through channels, and even though it wasn't absolutely mind-blowing, I still kept on with the series and fell in love with the characters. It turned out to be my favorite show in the history of the world, and it's all because I didn't give up after one episode. I refuse to think the next season will be stupid just because Ianto and Jack aren't making out all of the time anymore.Just my opinion, everyone is entitled to one, I guess. [:

  108. Anonymous says:

    Who says that RTD is going to have anything to do with a fourth season of TW if, in fact, this "story" is even for real (this certainly wouldn't be the first time we've seen "confirmation" of something that turned out to be a complete fabrication). After seeing CoE and reading his recent interview, I'd be much more likely to tune in if he doesn't. I have a gut-feeling that most of his deconstruction of Torchwood (both in the last episode of S2 as well as CoE) and his demonstrated antipathy toward his audience as seen in more interviews than just this most recent one are just his way of taking his ball and going home. I say good riddance.

  109. Anonymous says:

    Who says that RTD is going to have anything to do with a fourth season of TW if, in fact, this "story" is even for real? (This certainly wouldn't be the first time we've seen "confirmation" of something that turned out to be a complete fabrication.) After seeing CoE and reading his recent interview, I'd be much more likely to tune in if he doesn't. I have a gut-feeling that most of his deconstruction of Torchwood (both in the last episode of S2 as well as CoE) and his demonstrated antipathy toward his audience as seen in more interviews than just this most recent one are just his way of taking his ball and going home. I say good riddance.

    • Andy says:

      What are you talking about??? He has said in every single interview (including on the COE DVD) that if there is a Torchwood 4 then he will do it.

  110. Random Texas fan says:

    I'll miss Ianto, I loved him in the background and I loved getting a better look at him in CoE. I am gutted we won't see more of him but I'm more invested in the story of Torchwood and rather they bring back Ianto or not I want to see what happens.

  111. HL says:

    I suspect RTD is manic depressive. He turned Torchwood into about as fun as hanging around a funeral pyre roasting soggy marshmellows. Jack is a hopeless, neutered sap. All the interesting characters like Ianto & Owen (great actors too) are killed off to be replaced by bores like the woman playing Lois.

  112. Anonymous says:

    I have been unsettled for several days now and have just finished for the 3rd time watching the CoE. It still hurts when I see Ianto die, but I was there in the 1980-90's when I lost most of my good friends to AIDS. Strange how that scene brought back so many memories and sentances spoken as they slipped quietly into forever. It brought back a lot of memories of those years. Jack losing his his partner shocked a lot of us, some turned to anger and others called it great drama. Art/ Theatre at times, imitates life. I also know that for prime time TV, the USA fans were always rivited to the TV for torchwood. Some young gay men watched because there are so few role models of gay characters out there for them to model their lives over. Jack and Ianto were two brilliant characters. Why wouldn't they be role models for what partnership is all about…Now I have just finished watching the opening of Dr. Who. Great TV but I have a thought… at the end of the show the seer tells the Doctor someone from the dark is coming back, but to listen for 4 knocks. Perhaps Jack needs to spend some time with the Doctor and shake some dirt off his shoes, and who better than the Doctor to sort out Jack's confusion about himself?As for Season 4? Well, it might be interesting to see Miss Beebe getting more involved and Martha Jones is still out there and she is a doctor now. Only time will tell. my bet is still on the Doctor and maybe a male travelling companion for a couple episodes (Jack Harkness)?But that is my 2 cents worth.

    • Rick Taylor says:

      The series had the same effect on me. I recalled the many senseless death of my friends who succumbed to horrible fates I could do little to alter.The fact the the series had characters like Jack and Ianto reminds me why I like Brit TV so much. You would never see that on US TV. All the negative posts out there can go wacth Malibu Shark Attack on ScyFy for the knid of depth they crave.

  113. Andy says:

    Surely if Gwen names her baby Ianto then nothing changes. A tiny insignificant character who cries quite a lot. Perfect. As for the majority of these comments then I am truly ashamed to be a torchwood fan if it means being associated with these kind of comments. Character based?? You couldn't get more charcter based than COE. That was the point. Every piece of help they normally rely on, every item of technology at their disposal, all gone. They had to start from scratch using whatever they could get hold of, and plan things on their own. I think they realised that they were not ready and unfortunately it came too late for Ianto. But hey, Office Angels could provide a coffee boy at a reasonable price. If you are all so disinterested then leave the rest of us alone to celebrate this news. Get out of the Torchwood forums, leave posts like this alone. You are not interested, hate RTD, hate Torchwood, then do everyone a favour, stop moaning and leave.

  114. terri says:

    Last season was bad enough losing Tosh and Owen. Now Ianto. I'll check it out , but without the rest of the crew I don"t think it will make it. Will Lois be the new information officer? BBC….make it good.

  115. Anonymous says:

    Torchwood is about Jack, who watches everyone die. One by one, no matter what he does, they age and fall, or something takes them out. You think it hurts you to lose Tosh or Ianto? These are daggers into Jack's heart; people who could have lived on if they'd never met him. He does what he must, and he goes on and on. Is he really going to end up as the immobile and sad Face of Boe, eons in the future?

  116. Anonymous says:

    Torchwood S4? I'm following RTD advise… watching Supernatural! ^^

  117. Anonymous says:

    I can't wait to see a new Season! Although I am heartbroken over the crew's death and Jack's losses, I love the Whoverse, so as long as the stories stay strong, I'll be right there watching.The series is about TORCHWOOD, not Ianto, Toshiko, Owen & Gwen..or Jack for that matter. Have you guys forgotten that Torchwood One (where Ianto originally worked) was destroyed, including his girlfriend Lisa? "We" survived that, and we can survive this too.

  118. Carrie says:

    I would've been very content if "Children of Earth" had been the last season for "Torchwood". But now that it's official, I'm looking forward to the fourth season. People seem to forget that Gwen was brought into Torchwood to be the outside eyes; even though she's now been a member of the team for three years, she is still the one who has at least one foot in the *normal* world – this soft place to come home to every night, with a loving husband and now a child on the way. And while I know a lot of fans are upset over Ianto dying, it wasn't like Gwen received a *complete* happy ending. She has still had to watch three of her co-workers/friends die and Jack has run off – like he tends to do when things are too much for him to handle – leaving her to pick up all the pieces. And I say all of this as a fan who wasn't all that interested in Gwen during the first season and the first half of the second season. I never hated her, but there was Tosh and Owen (and beautiful, gorgeous Jack to look at) and Ianto, and so Gwen just happened to be my least favorite character. But once I saw the episode "Adrift", that started to change things. Now, all of the characters are in this collective #1 spot for me, with Tosh in as 1+. These characters were friends and they had an impact on one another, and they're always going to be alive through memories. And as long as Jack's alive, he's always going to mention them. (Come on, guys, he mentioned Susie in the last episode.) Because that's how Jack is. That's how Davies is. That's brilliant writing – the worst may happen to a character, but the character is never forgotten.

  119. marta says:

    Love this show! I will watch no matter who it has!!!!!

  120. Anonymous says:

    No more Ianto. No more Torchwood for me.

  121. Tilda says:

    I agree with everyone, even Mr Davis, that in a great drama we have to suffer losses.And in a good movie it still works with me. But This WAS a series, in which I have been involved a much longer time and learn to love each and every character. I was emotionally tied to the story and the whole group. And believe me I am far over the teenage…..Maybe I could agree with the death of one member. The death of Owen brings us some interesting episodes. The second death of Tosh erases the first bad feelings in me and the death of Ianto is totally pointless. Happening because Jack has no strategic plan at all.I loved the first day of COE, a lot of new information about the rest of the group was given, but then it started to go bad. From my point of view, out of Germany, the Torchwood seasons 1 and 2 made a fine difference to a lot of those unsubstantial American TV shows (no offense, I don't know them all).The style was different, even a bit cheap at first, but that gives this special "real" feeling about it. And by the way… I love the accent…..COE shows that much more money was involved and targeted to a completely different, mainstream audience. Maybe this is business, but it kills of any charm the series had for me.How can I start from the end of COE to a Season 4?How can I hope for or believe in a new love for Jack. He had already 3 now in a normal human lifespan (if I count right: Estelle, Alice mother and Ianto) And besides he was not able to say "I love you" in the end…How can I even look at my former favorite character with the knowledge, that he would sacrifice EVERYBODY in a blink of an eye, for the greater good?How can I get emotionally involved with a whole new group of people, knowing they can also get killed?How can I really enjoy seeing Gwen with a child at home, doing this early mortal Job?Maybe I will watch the 4th season, but maybe it will turn out to be just another show on TV…….

  122. Steve says:

    I can't believe how stupid so many of you are being here tbh, as Adam said a long way back up the page, RTD has no obligation to respect the fans, but it is his job to write fantastic storylines that are full of suspense and keep us interested right to the end and Torchwood does that and continues to do that however if RTD gave a damn bout half of you ranters in here, then he would in my opinion ruin what has the potential to continue being a damn fine show.I for one find Gwen one of the most annoying characters in the show, i have never warmed to her, never gave a damn bout Ianto til COE tbh and i think the reason i grew to like him was because the deaths of Tosh and Owen (my 2 fav characters) meant he had to take a more essential role in the team. I am by no means suggesting that because Ianto is dead that Gwen will suddenly be likeable that character just holds no appeal to me. I Agree whole heartedly with RTD that this show would just not be believable if characters never died, they come incredibly close to it in every episode, i probs am not alone, by saying i was surprised when they killed off 2 characters at the end of series 2 but i think it worked and certainly made me watch and rewatch those episodes. I am still a big fan of heroes despite the fact, they hardly ever kill of their main cast and have to admit im beginning to get bored knowing that the 'heroes' are always safe, its dull as well as unreliastic, if people are dying every day in household accidents, i think Torchwood are in great danger of death and we should almost be expecting it when we tune in.On a last note those of you saying you wouldnt want to warm to another team just to watch them die, what do u think u do with every drama, maybe not as rapid, but actors leave and characters die, it keeps things fresh, i liked the torchwood team in series 2 but if it stayed like that forever it would have got boring, i liked the team in series 3 despite feeling apprehensive that a 3 man team wouldnt work but it was wrote so well that it did and allowed you to get to know characters better. I also think the reason so many of you are angered by Ianto's death is because you were allowed to get to know Ianto so much better in episdoes 1,2 and 3. I For one loook forward to any further series and cant wait to see what they do however i will point out Jack will be bk, that much has been said by RTD and Gwen is pregnant/mother by next series so her role will be reduced or gone depending on what is wrote in for the new team.Anyways keep up the good work with the storylines and aggravating foolish would be drama fans, i second RTD statement, if ya cant take it, Go read poetry, poetry's wonderful!

  123. Anonymous says:

    I don't care how they do it, but I want Torchwood back and going ASAP!!!!!! I love this show and am sooooo sick of losing all the shows I watch. Torchwood is an excellent show and I am expecting series 4 in the near future!!! So, the executives better start producing because I can not handle another show being cancelled!!!! Make sure Jack is back, Gwen, can always bring in Lois, the one that helped Torchwood and then they need to find a doctor, and a tech wiz. So, come on now, Let's GET TO IT, YEA!!!!!!!!!!

  124. Anonymous says:

    there was no reason for Ianto to die,i think the remark Clem made about being able to smell the queer was incredibly offensive as well, and i think portraying Jack killing his own grandson shows a level of contempt for the shows viewers. i won't watch s4 as i think torchwood is demolished and , very deliberately, de-gayed.

    • clavicular says:

      Hmm, I hope you are wrong about the show being de-gayed because that was one of the things I loved about it. Clem's comment didn't bother me so much because within the context of the character it made sense. Andy had a comment that really angered me, though – when they were going to inform Ianto's sister of his death, he asked Gwen "was he queer?" I mean, the character wasn't exactly endorsed by the show in this, but it was so frustrating to see a character who was well developed and well loved and had done many heroic things and had died in pursuit of something he believed in, trying to protect people, having the importance of his whole life being reduced to whether or not he liked guys. I personally thought that Jack killing his grandson was the show making an interesting ethical point and trying to get the viewers to question their own values… I mean, the politicians are willing to give away 10% of the child population in order to save the other 90% – so long as they're left untouched by this – and we despise them for it. But is one child to save 10% of the world's children any better? Does it make it better, worse, or have no effect that the politicians weren't willing to give up their own children but Jack was? Is it a case of "how many is too many"? The whole s3 raised a lot of interesting ethical issues and that was one thing I liked about it, but on the other hand I can see why that particular instance would be upsetting. Although, one thing that I did wonder – when Ianto was dying, Jack said something like "I'll do anything, just not him." Implication there is that he'd sacrifice all those kids to save Ianto. I wondered how much he actually meant that – if Ianto's fate was completely in his hands, and it was a situation like with Jack's grandson, I wondered if he would have sacrificed him or not. It might sound strange, but I'd like to think so – I'd like to think he isn't so selfish that he can only sacrifice people who he doesn't have any real or meaningful relationship with. I am very sick of the subtle messages we keep seeing in television and movies that seem to say queer people can't have a happy ending. But I'm going to reserve judgment on Torchwood with that one – I still think there's hope for it, and I'm going to trust it a bit longer. We'll see how they go.

  125. Karen says:

    I can see that people have very strong feelings about this. I can understand not wanting to continue with a show if your favorite character leaves. That's fine. I love Ianto (and alas know before seeing COE that he dies) and don't know if I will lose interest once he's gone. But the show's writer has to follow his vision. For all I know he may be a jerk or arrogant, but it doesn't change the fact that he's the writer and isn't beholden to his fans to construct a storyline to their liking. Some writers may like to collaborate more with fans, but others could find that paralyzing. You may not agree that he made the right choice for the narrative, but it was his choice to make.

  126. Anonymous says:

    For people who seem to keep saying "We don't care about the show" if you really didn't you wouldn't be wasting your time saying why you didn't like it. Since you seem to be so childish as to suddenly not want anything to do with it because your "favorite" character dies, in my opinion you were never a fan of the show because to suddenly not want to watch it because a character dies is not only retarded but its also childish. Anyone here watch NCIS after Kate died, whats the difference between this and that, there is none, the show is still good and its down some characters that they can replace. AS for the Hub being destroyed i am absolutely sure that its not impossible to rebuild. Now if your all quite done saying your not going to watch series 4 stop wasting your time telling other people because honestly i don't care. Good ridden to all the bad fans and hello all the good fans and new fans.

    • Christina says:

      I couldn't agree more! here here, and well-said.

    • clavicular says:

      …I'm noticing some inconsistencies in your comment. For one thing, you said that if people don't care about the show then they wouldn't waste their time talking about how much they hate it. You spend an entire paragraph talking about how much you hate it when people do this. You conclude with "stop wasting your time telling other people because honestly i don't care". I hope I don't have to tell you why that is making me laugh hysterically. Or maybe you were being ironic. I really hope so.Also, using the word "retarded" as an insult is hurtful and disrespectful to people who have genuine disabilities.

  127. Russ Rogers says:

    Holy CRAP! When was the last time a ComicMix Article had 200+ comments? Cool. It makes me want to watch Torchwood and find out what all the hubbub is about.

  128. Anonymous says:

    Torchwood S4? Eh, no thanks. I'm following RTD's advise… I'll be watching Supernatural!

    • Jackie Stone says:

      As for me, I'll be watching Primeval and go back to reruns of Highlander, Star Trek and other good shows, where at least they develop a character before killing them off. Just as we start to learn a little about Tosh and Ianto, we lose them. And to be honest, while I am a Janto-shipper, I really do think that it would have been better for Ianto to tell Jack that he was leaving him. Also, as much as they crammed into CofE, they dropped little tidbits about Jack and Ianto's lives without delving much into it. Alice is dropped into our laps and while we learn a little about her, why couldn't we have seen a little of her childhood? Maybe something had happened when she was younger to make her distrust Jack (not just him being immortal)? And why couldn't we have gotten a little more insight on WHY Ianto was obviously ashamed or upset with his family? I think if we hadn't be left with so many holes in so many characters many of us would be more satisfied.

  129. nick says:

    After all, Torchwood is Barrowman's show like 24 is Sutherland's show. I will watch it of course, and cannot wait for it !!!

  130. Anonymous says:

    Personally I loved COE, I thought the death of Ianto while a little formulaic was better than the deaths of Tosh and Own. I especially liked the climax where Jack sacrificed his own grandson to save humanity and the children despite the fact that it also cost him his daughter. In fact imo, this was probably the best series thus far of Torchwood, and I actually liked Gwen's character much better now that she's had some time to grow, I absolutely abhorred her character in the first series, and still didn't think that much of her in the second although she was coming along well. And while Tosh, Owen, and Ianto(I love this name) will be missed, I am very much looking forward to series 4. Of course we all hate when a beloved character gets killed off but it has to happen sometimes, and I could argue that Torchwood is just making up for the hundreds of other shows who refuse to kill of main characters. I think they did a wonderful job showing us that life and death are constants no matter where or when we are.As for series 4, I think the best possible choice for it, rather than the Jack and Gwen show as so many people have put it, should be a semi-rebooted version of the series. In that a few years have passed, I don't know how many, and Gwen is now head of Torchwood operations, maybe even on post in the minister's cabinet, with a new team under her. Start the series off doing the usual round of introductions for new cast members, then within the first 2 episodes, kill off the groups current leader, leaving a vacant position. This would provide a chance for them to find Jack for whatever reason, or to have him show up, and Gwen could then foist the position upon him, giving him no chance to flee again. At this point the dynamic would change as Gwen is now Jack's superior, and has been dealing with all this attendant headaches that get thrown Torchwood's way for whatever number of years were decided past between COE and Series 4. I don't know admittedly how well this would work, but I think it's the best possible outcome, and might even bring back some of the people complaining the loudest.And just to give into the fans a little, maybe someone could pull out page out of a few other scifi shows and make Ianto's voice and image the basic interface program of the computers at the newly rebuilt hub, since I'm assuming they would need the hub rebuilt at the same location due to the rift, albeit updated and improved. The interface could even be holographic since that would cause some emotional tension with Jack and how he handles things.And just as a parting note, and yes I know I did this too, but has anyone ever wondered about they manner in which all fans refer to the characters as if they were actual people, rather than talking about the actor's and actresses that portray them? Sometimes you would think we just killed off someone's best friend or lover the way the fans speak of this or that character.

    • Anonymous says:

      Just to comment on your ideas for a new series (because I love speculation/fanfiction/the likes) I actually like that idea. I wouldn't really like Jack working under Gwen as it doesn't fit the character or JB's leaderish acting style. Other than that I could completely imagine Gwen program Ianto's voice into the interface and I can't imagine that Ianto wouldn't have left a will or parting letter somewhere in the software for when he died. Gwen's character grew on me in CoE and I liked how she said hi to the picture of Owen and Tosh at the beginning. That tidbit reminded me that Gwen is sweet and she isn't the same awful thing she was in series 1, which I think is something that many people forget. Sorry if my comment isn't saying much I just wanted to say that your little speculation made me smile. PS: I am a hardcore Ianto fan that can forgive his death as long as I don't think too hard about how pointless his death was and how banal he became in CoE. Although I don't blame people who can't.

  131. Anonymous says:

    Well I'll be watching even if it kills me.I really like Gwen and they won't have a Torchwood without Jack so he'll be back don't worry.I wasn't exactly a bit Janto shipper, I was always more Gwack.Gwen and Rhys having a baby will be very cute and I will always be a fan of Torchwood no matter who they kill (I may be a bit annoyed if they kill Gwen but still)I am going to watch the 4th series and you lot are going to, you won't be able to resist.

  132. Annie Mouse says:

    Did it occur to anyone that perhaps the actors decided to move on? That perhaps RTD had no choice in the matter? Considering that S3 was a tipping point in the future of the show it is quite possible that Garreth decided to put his faith into other options, therefore Ianto dies. I too felt cheated with his death but his death was justified and dignified. He died in the arms of his lover standing up for the children of Earth and against the misguided decisions of government. I hated watching Tosh die. Until Owen died I didn't really care about him either way, not to say that I disliked the character. But with each death the characters tried to stay on, keep fighting, stop the bad guys, and solve the mystery. As for RTD being arrogant, I have no idea. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. But if he's had to listen to people such as those who post here, perhaps he feels he's been attacked enough. Now he lashes back. I'm not saying this is exactly what's going on, just pointing to an alternate opinion.DISCLAIMER: The views expressed by this poster are not necessarily the views held by this poster. These comments are in no way meant to bind the poster to the views. The views are expressed solely to promote thought. If you cannot think, the poster sincerely apologies for the obviously insensitive comments against your particular disability. If the views expressed here have been offended by their use here the poster further apologies to the inanimate ideas for the obvious insensitivity in being used.

    • clavicular says:

      While I would normally assume that if a character has been killed, it was because the actor wanted to leave, there's an interview with Garreth that shows that's not the case.

    • Anonymous says:

      Gareth didn't choose to leave, but he says that he's ok with leaving. He was told at the beginning of the production of series three.

  133. Foxglove Kent says:

    Wow, it's so interesting to see how vehemently people react. I see it every day in my business – I own a comic shop. People get really invested in a character and then begin cussing loudly and swearing off the book when the character is handled in a way they disapprove of. And then they come right back and buy it again, bitching the whole way along.I happen to agree with Adam. This was one of the greatest bits of television I have ever seen, and I hold it right next to the new Battlestar Galactica, the very best of Star Trek, and others that are not only respected, but in some ways, revered. CoE had all the elements a great story needs – the highest stakes imaginable, a big buildup, a huge risk, and a great payoff. CoE is one of the most frightening, disturbing, and amazing stories I can remember for years.Why the Gwen-hate? I LOVE her. I think she's beautiful and charming, smart and sexy. She's more than interesting enough for me to want to see her again. And Captain Jack, my heart just broke for him on so many levels throughout the series. I have a friend who ran into John Barrowman at ComicCon over the weekend. I told him, truthfully, that if I had been there and seen him, I think I would have burst into tears and fallen into his arms.See, without high stakes, all the remarks about "red shirts" are true. If you never can die, there's never any real danger. That's why Captain Jack can be killed over and over, and we smile – it's actually fun to see it happen again and again. But when Ianto dies… well, that's different, isn't it? REALLY different. I'll miss Ianto. But his death made this feel so much more real. I agree that losing three members of the team in four episodes is radical. It's risky. But RTD's risks have so far paid off big time.I was left feeling depressed and anxious by this series. And that's what makes it so great. It has affected my sleep, and drifted through my thoughts every day of the four days since I watched it. It's lingered in my psyche, and the power of the whole story has left its mark on me forever. Whatever Torchwood becomes, I'll be there. I believe in Captain Jack. I hope Gwen returns because she's lovely. I hope Lois Habiba joins the team. But whatever happens, I'll be there.

  134. Anonymous says:

    Torchwood died with Ianto.

  135. Anonymous says:

    Great (if it includes Ianto).Won't be watching (if it doesn't)

  136. brianna h. says:

    I cant wait until s4.

  137. Anonymous says:

    Jack will come back with bigger and better toys, he has just gone shopping in that great shopping center in the sky. I loved the story of jack and Ianto. but Popular fiction always kills of the gay lovers its a message to all us bi and gay people you will never be happy ever because you are different. and then they kill us of lamely in a poisoned office building. or in buffy's willows lovers case a stray bullet, or in brokeback mountain beaten to death on a roadside, angels in america hiv of course. Its just a story. did i like it – no i thought it was lame but not for the same reasons as a lot on here. i hope jack brings some way cool presents and then convinces gwen to drop the kid and run back to work and oh all those glorius arguments with rhys holding the baby , its like a hug from jesus. lois can come back the perky pa with very bad respect for personal privacy. and they can find some more roadkill to throw on the pyres of that horrible proffession. but using my spider senses , wasnt jacks original team that he worked for all killed in some pointless and horrible way as was the london branch .. all wiped out if i recall. i bet there where iantos and lots of perky tosh's and owens running around those offices. . So guys its not really out of the ordinary for the these teams to be killed of ….right…..think about it……….you just didnt know those guys so you went YAY we get a brand new cool team. and as for torchwood being destroyed well they can rebuild and actually can do it better now they extended that renovation crator. anyway about him killing of the granchild and a few other bad memories i aint touching it , lol im no expert.

  138. Mark Grindell says:

    Err

  139. Mark Grindell says:

    I can't imagine another series…

  140. Anonymous says:

    I will be watching the show is just brilliant.

  141. Anonymous says:

    I will definitely be watching the new season. I think the show is great. We've lost many characters now though. The loss of Ianto is a shame. Hopefully the series will be continuing in full strength with the next season as I've highly enjoyed the last three seasons. The fact that we care so much about the loss of these characters says the show is doing something right in my opinion, but the show may never have the same affect without them. I'm hoping it does as it's wonderful stuff.

  142. Crissi says:

    I'm happy that TW is coming back, but I dont want them to keep killing characters off and replacing them and I dont particularly want to watch Jack and Gwen for the whole time. I thought the series worked well when Tosh, Owen and Ianto were in it, it had a better feel and it was far more interesting.They cant keep killing characters off people will lose interest. And killing Ianto off was a big mistake. The writers underestimated the fan base that Gareth David Lloyd has.

  143. Lisa says:

    Don't care, won't watch. All the interesting characters are gone, have no interest in watching Jack and Gwen start flirting again.

    • clavicular says:

      To be honest, I don't actually think the writers will take it back to the Gwen/Jack UST – they seemed pretty set on Gwen and Rhys. But, uh, that doesn't really change the fact that the characters you watched for are gone.

  144. Anonymous says:

    Most of you are acting like specific characters are the only reason a show is a success when frankly that's just not true. If that were the case then many shows would never have gotten off the ground in the first place, and other shows that were good would have ended horribly. The whole point of killing off characters and replacing them is two-fold in my opinion. The first reason is to catch new audiences, who don't want to come in midway through a show's run and see all the cliques and inside jokes that have already formed as a result of long developing characters, they will quickly be turned off by the fact that they can't quickly and easily jump into the show. Thus the need for character deaths every so often to give new viewers a chance to jump in. Obviously this is a piss poor reason, but it is a possible reason for the action nonetheless. The second reason is to keep a show fresh, and to really explain this part I need to make an observation about British TV as opposed to American TV, I being American myself have seen a lot of this problem, but the observation is thus, British shows for whatever reason, however they manage to do it, progress much more quickly than do American shows. An American show might take 13-20 episodes to develop a character and progress the overall story arc at the same time, whereas British serials manage to do the same amount of character development and plot progression in a handful of episodes allowing them to finish story arcs in 1/3-1/2 the time it takes an American show. This of course creates a problem, although I for one appreciate the quick character development and story progression, that being that characters can get stale much more quickly in British television, because a series or two into the show, you know pretty much everything about a character and his or her motivations. So in order to keep the show from going stale, like many long series do, for reference see ridiculously long lived American tv shows such as The Simpsons, Family Guy, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, most of the Star Trek series, etc, they have to kill off a character every so often, although I'll admit, not watching as much British TV as I do American TV, character deaths in Torchwood may occur more frequently than average.Don't get me wrong, I get invested with the characters as much as most of you do, and I hate to see them die as well, but one of the pros of quicker character development and shorter seasons(or series) that British television uses is that you have less time to get emotionally invested in a character, and thus are more likely to accept said character's death as a logical progression of a story. At least you aren't seeing Ianto's death after 10 series, that would have hit a lot harder. Now far be it for me to say his death was necessary, but my guess is rather than pursue a jilted lover angle for the storyline which involved some sort of estrangement between Jack and Ianto, presumably because of Jack's infidelity, which is a story that has been done to death, they chose to kill the character and take Jack on an emotional roller coaster once again, as the man who lives almost forever comes to grips with the fact that once again he broke his own rule not to get too involved with someone he knows he is going to have to watch die.Of course this is all one person's opinion, but I hope I managed to convey my thoughts well enough to convince some of the less rabid among you to relent and take series 4 on it's own merits, and not hate it before it even has a chance to air, just because you didn't approve of Ianto's, or Tosh's, or Owen's deaths.

    • clavicular says:

      I don't think the point is that specific characters are the reason a show was successful; the point is that specific characters are the reasons some people watched the show. It might not be enough to be a majority – and therefore this is not the reason for its success or failure – but it is still an important fanbase with valid opinions.And, um, your assumptions about where the Jack/Ianto story arc would have gone if Ianto hadn't died don't seem to be based on any evidence from the show. What we saw in Torchwood s3 showed Jack and Ianto trying to navigate a relationship despite their very different life experiences and their different outlook on the future. It showed them dealing with issues of trust and honesty, and with their sometimes different values and worldviews. There were things about their relationship that really worked and some things that they were struggling with, and I personally think there was enough of a story to drive that romantic subplot without resorting to tired cliches like love-triangles and on-again-off-again romances. Also, I don't like your chances of winning anyone over, because I think most fans who were upset by their favourite characters' deaths would be even more offended to think that it had only been done in order to keep the show "fresh". If the writers can't do that without resorting to killing off characters then they're doing something wrong. In any case it would be ridiculous and unnecessary because this most recent series was utterly fantastic and done really well. For myself, the quality of this recent series really won me over even though I was devastated by Tosh's death, so I think the idea of killing off more characters for the reasons you mentioned wouldn't be needed, anyway.

    • Jackie Stone says:

      There are ways of keeping a show fresh without getting rid of most of the characters. Since we met so many people in CofE that were directly connected to Torchwood characters, like Alice and Ianto's family, there was plenty of room for drama, humor and other such things involving aliens and the Rift without taking away beloved characters (btw– I adored Owen BECAUSE of his snarky attitude, it showed us his true self when we learned about Katie and his mother) in such a quick succession. I personally feel that if CofE had been a few episodes longer, they could have given us more details without totally dissecting the characters in question and then losing Ianto and Jack and watching a little boy (who still believed in "Uncle" Jack) die would not have ruined a fantabulous series for so many of us. I approve and support character deaths when they are there to serve a purpose and despite what RTD says, Jack would have used Stephen whether or not Ianto lived (remember the Faeries? The TW Archives states that Ianto was the only one to talk to Jack after that) so why not have him die trying to rescue Mica (so cute) and David? His death, to be honest, was pointless. In may ways, so were Owen's and Tosh's.

  145. Christina says:

    All you Ianto lovers out there don't forget they still have the blue prints for the rift machine (AKA tardis 2) so they can always travel back in time to save Ianto. which I think they probably will concidering all the bad comments about it. If you miss S4 you could be missing Ianto!

  146. Anonymous says:

    I don't care who they bring in to replace Ianto, I won't be watching it. Unless it's his doppelganger from another universe!Liking his character is a valid reason for watching it, and refusing to watch it because your favourite character is killed off is equally valid. I won't slate people who want to watch season 4 so I hope those people will show me the same respect.

    • Shad Gray says:

      I have to credit this post for putting into words well what so many others have failed to say. "Torchwood died with Ianto" is a battlecry on this thread that is a shallow point of view. I myself, love Torchwood with or without Ianto and believed S3 to be superb. However, I understand a person's loss of interest with the exit of a beloved character.To me, Torchwood is about Torchwood. It wasnt the Ianto and Jack show. Its not even the Jack and Gwen show people keep claiming it to be. Its Jack's spin-off from Doctor Who (plain and simple) that has given us a view into Torchwood (at least this one branch of it). My hope is that S4 and beyond brings us new characters in mass that people find as endearing as Ianto, Tosh, and Owen… all the while, slowly unraveling the Torchwood Institute's history and future.Seeing how Torchwood fell apart in S3 fascinated me and questions of how such a long standing organization will survive and rebuild keeps me craving more.

  147. Anonymous says:

    I'm pretty over the disrespecting the fans bullshit. When you don't disrespect the fans a bit, you end up with Watchmen the movie. If your characters are clearly never actually in jeopardy, then you might as well watch Armageddon (c'mon; you knew that bomb was NEVER going to go off with that many leads in the room) or reruns of Charlie's Angels.Characters need independent life; if fans insist on keeping them within particular bounds, you might as well embalm them. You'll have pretty corpses, but there is no life without death. Torchwood has done a great job of marrying the two – the character that never dies lives surrounded by loss, the characters that can be injured or killed live in jeopardy, with fierceness and bravery. It results in great storytelling, actual suspense, and real surprise. And a true emotional impact for those that allow themselves to care.Trust me, I'll be there!

  148. Anonymous says:

    The BBC seems to like to kill off characters. In Primeval, characters are dying all the time. In Doctor Who (the revived series) they switch at least one main character EVERY season; either a companion or a doctor. The specials even more so (a main supporting character a show). Okay, so they aren't killing a character, but if I like the character they are gone either way.Spooks Code 9 also. Never watched the regular series.Garyhttp://GarySaid.com/

  149. Anonymous says:

    I will be watching, yes there is a lot of deaths but isn't that life. Just because you love someone, invest in them doesn't mean they are going to live. The fact that a show can cause this much emotion from its viewers really says it all.

    • Anonymous says:

      It really does, but Russel T Davis is choosing not to look at it that way and instead chooses to belittle the fans and tell them they are all little babies who don't understand "Drama"He makes it sound like a drama is something that kills off their characters all the time, which is ridiculous. Good dramas don't need to rely on character deaths.

      • Jackie Stone says:

        I think RTD's attitude is a BIG part of it. Yes, death is part of Drama. Everytime I watch "Deathnote" I keep hoping maybe it'll change and L and Light will live. Same with Star Wars (I loved Vader) and Highlander (poor Tessa and Richie) and all the other shows I watch where someone dies. But at least all of those deaths had a purpose.

  150. Anonymous says:

    WHAT THE WHATI mean, seriously? I normally hate when they try to reanimate a corpse, but it might be interesting to watch this one limp around.

  151. Anonymous says:

    why would you guys all stop watching they have already hinted at Martha Jones joining, and possibly miky.

  152. Matt says:

    Why does anyone need to comment if they "don't care" and aren't going to watch the show? What a waste of everyone's time and cyberspace. Stay out of the discussion and save this and other sites for real comments. I will give the new series a chance.

  153. Christy says:

    You people sure do whine a lot. Just shut up and either watch the show or stop watching it. I'm sure no one cares.

    • Anonymous says:

      The whole point of this discussion is to express opinions… which of course you have done. You've told us to stop expressing our opinions…. how interesting.

  154. Christy says:

    And by the way it's Rhys, not Reese.

  155. Lucinda says:

    I will miss Ianto but as long as Jack's back so am I! I'm addicted to Torchwood and I can hardly wait. Bring it on!

  156. Terry says:

    In keeping with the recent trends in Torchwood character development, Gwen's baby will probably be ripped from her womb by the Prime Minister while Jack films it. Any new characters added for season 4 will be dead by the end.

    • Jackie Stone says:

      I can see Jack with a camera doing that…

    • Shad Gray says:

      LMAO! – Even tho I disagree with you and will be watching S4 on the edge of my seat, that was REALLY FUNNY and made me smile for the first time reading this thread. Cheers Mate!

  157. Alex says:

    Oh Please. As if this is a real-life drama. R. Davies takes himself waaaay too seriously. Its Sci-Fi…and certain main characters that "define" the show should stick around. (especially if the fans like them). Its like Mulder without Scully or vice versa (and yes, we saw what happened when Mulder left the X-files).Ianto's death pretty much means a lot of people will not be watching…(but may keep tabs online in case he returns). I'm new to the show…but will buy series 1 and 2 (already saw series 3)…and consider Torchwood a "closed" chapter once I'm done.

  158. Alex says:

    ….and BTW….I could care less if Ianto was or was not romantically involved with Jack. His character simply "worked" for me.

    • Jackie Stone says:

      I liked him whether he was with Jack or not. He had such a passion for everything and he was so mysterious. We don't really know anything about him.

  159. Anonymous says:

    People die. PEOPLE DIE IN REAL LIFE! LOVED ONES DIE IN OUR ARMS DAILY!!!! AND YOUR UPSET THAT TORCHWOOD MADE A SCENE THAT WAS TRUE TO LIFE? ASND YOUR NOIT GONNA WATCH IT NOW? THEN IN ALL REALITY YOU WERE NEVER A TRUE FAN. ONLY A TRUE FAN CAN ACCEPT WHAT HAS HAPPENED AND STILL WATCH FOR THE SAKE OF WATCHING A TV SHOW. IT WASNT THE IANTO OR JACK/IANTO SHOW. IT WAS TORCHWOOD. IF YOU TAKE TV SO SERIOUSLY YOUR NEGLECTING REALITY. WAKE UP!

    • Anonymous says:

      It wasn't realistic though, that's the point. What would of been realistic would be for something to happen to Gwen's baby, she was supposed to be 3 weeks pregnant, all that stress would of caused a miscarriage. (not that I would wish that on any one, cause I have known people who have). What wasn't realistic was two experienced people like Jack and Ianto going into Thames house with no real plan or even a back up plan just in case something went wrong.

    • Jackie Stone says:

      Actually, it was the Gwen show. Look at how many episodes dealt with her and her problems. It wasn't even the Jack and Gwen show. RTD must be in love with Eve Myles.

      • CPJ says:

        Huh? Gwen show? I don't see that way. Torchwood is not about her, don't you know? Are you teasing us?

        • Jackie Stone says:

          So many episodes are told from her viewpoint, not to mention that we see her character grow and develop so much more than the others in all 3 series. I saw more of Gwen (who i do like, btw) than anyone else, bar Jack.

  160. Alyria says:

    They killed off 60% of the main characters and blew up in the base in the span of 4 episodes. Which would have been fine had they ended the show then and there. But no, they are coming back for another season. With what? They've blown it all up, there is nothing to make a 4th season with. It's not merely about people being unable to handle drama. It was having so much pointless destruction piled up on us all at once. I mean Ianto's death was completely senseless. Their plan to just barge in there and give the Earth crushing alien a firm talking to was a stupid plan. I mean they had this great plan for getting to the alien, and a crap plan for what to do when they got there. CoE wasn't a drama, it was a tragedy, the only difference is Shakespeare had the sense not to make a Macbeth 2.

  161. Anonymous says:

    What I am hoping for is that Jack will come back from the stars with some sort of machine that will allow him to bring an alternate universe Owen, Tosh, and Ianto to this earth. Then the old team will be back together! :-)

  162. Anonymous says:

    A new series of Torchwood would be great! A new series of Children of Earth not so much. I'm actually incredibly sad to say that my first reaction to the 'news' was horror. Followed by a quiet sadness. This coming from someone who, weeks ago, would have been insanely happy.*sigh*

  163. Anonymous says:

    I for one will be watching torchwood for however long it is on! It is a brilliant show and I understand loads of people were hurt by Ianto's death which some deem as RTD's disrespect for fans, but i personally disagree. Torchwood is about jack, just as the parent show is about the doctor,both immortal characters who will eventually watch everyone they love die or at the very least leave them behind to prevent watching them die. What i don't understand is that the doctor(for as long as his show as been on air) has had countless companions and made friends who have either left or died(e.g. adric), but the audience has continued to follow him for decades through every incarnation, if this occurs in the supposedly family based show, why should torchwood which is originally aimed at a much older audience be any different? I personally don't think RTD disrespects the fans; ever since day four aired, fans were understandly upset and he has quietly explained his reasons for the story, but still some have verbally attacked him and pushed him against a wall, and he is just saying that he won't burge! We are the audience and we may control the ratings but we cannot always have our way in regards to how the storylines play out. Obviously, Ianto was well loved, but the 'pointlessness' of his death WAS the point, like in real life, death could happen to anyone, at anytime, and the cause could be anything? In the Whoniverse, with the amount of alien and paranormal threats they get (e.g. abaddon, the daleks), the chances are even higher! And further we should have seen it coming, if it didn't happen in this series it would have happened in the next one, or the one after that and not necessarily restricted to a 'pointless' 456 gas and we still wouldn't have wanted to let the character go. Let's look at 24 for example, any character besides (jack of course) can drop dead at any second, as we have seen through its 7 years on air!(e.g. Teri bauer, Michelle diessler, david palmer, Tony Almeida or so we thought back then,and Milo), that is part of what keeps the audience at the edge of their seats for every episode and the show is still here. RTD laid down this blueprint since the first season of torchwood, that torchwood employees die young, what is the point of the show, if they don't? Some also argue why Gwen is always kept alive, this is arguably one of those rare occasions as johnson stated of Alice's mother(a torchwood employee) who died of natural causes, but who knows? She could meet her end next season. And let us not forget, we were introduced to torchwood through her eyes, which automatically makes her the female lead of the show. Also torchwood arguably runs within the same parallel timeline as doctor who and so there is no way we would have seen Ianto growing old with him anyway! Not unless we wait for season 20, lastly, i think if Gareth himself has come to terms with it and he played the character for 3 years, who are we to argue? And i agree with him that we should trust the writers.

  164. Anonymous says:

    In all of this, as much as I am a fan of the show, hasn't anyone ever considered what Gareth David lloyd feels about the whole situation?! but he has made peace with it and plans to move on with his career!"At the back of my mind I had been thinking I do not want to be playing Ianto for the bulk of my career, I don't want to become typecast, even though I was disappointed and I was expecting to do at least another full series. I would definitely have liked to have done more episodes."But I was really happy with what happened, how it was done. It was an exit I can proud of.""I would say anything could happen, especially in sci-fi. But I would not want him (Ianto) to come back too quickly, it would cheapen the scenes and take away the impact."But it's not to say I would say no. It's a huge part of my life and I would love any excuse to work with the crew or the other actors again."The bottom line is that anything could happen. I am resolved that my character is dead but I am not closed to the idea of working with the producers again." – Gareth David LloydI understand everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but can we just have a bit of respect for the actor and the writers they brought the character to life after all!! Look at prison break for example, sara tancredi was killed off in season 3, fans went nuts and the writers gave in to pressure,and as a result she was 'resurrected' in season 4 and the show was forced to end because despite the backlash those same fans couldn't save the ratings for that season! And this is Sci fi, by now the writers know how much Ianto is valued, he will surely be back in some form in later series if only temporarily e.g. Rose always comes back and we thought those dimensional walls were concrete! Look at the supposedly dead Master as well later this christmas! If torchwood ends as a result of this backlash(unlikely though) NOBODY will be happy and there goes our chance of ever seeing our beloved Ianto, Owen or Tosh in some capacity again! Did anyone ever think about that?!

  165. Anonymous says:

    Where do you think Jack has gone? He has gone to find the Doctor, the one person in the entire Universe who can understand and forgive Jack for what he has done. Jack sacrificed his grandson to save Earth; the Doctor sacrificed his entire species to save the Universe. These men will understand each other.And the Doctor will convince Jack to return to Earth and start over. After all, the Rift still runs through Cardiff causing mayhem, and some group needs to be there to hold back the tide. If not Torchwood, then UNIT presumably. Would Jack settle for that? And don't forget, what is destroyed can be rebuilt. Torchwood is paid for by the Crown, and last time I looked HM was not short of a bob or two. A reconstituted Hub is a probability.As for who would staff a reconstituted Torchwood: Jack and Gwen obviously. Can't see how Rhys can't be involved. There's Mickey and Martha too, before we consider anyone else who might be introduced.There is plenty of hope for the future.

  166. chris says:

    i wont ever be able to question these guys, the writers and actors because with COE it was like emotional torture and it really hit me in a way nothing else has done, i will miss ianto defiently but since gareth is happy with the way it ended thats fine with mei will continue to watch this show all the way and thanks to reset and COE ill be fearing for every character because ill never know when they will die next

  167. Abby =D says:

    Torchwood is always down before it is up again. Jack leaving is the perfect opportunity for Gwen to have her baby and when torchwood returns with Jack (after the Dr Who specials – Jack is in them) Gwen could have rebuilt the hub and started torchwood again with Rhys, Martha, Lois and maybe even Mickey. If at the end of series 3 Jack had just said: "Right let's rebuild the hub and get back down to buisness" it would have been disrespectful to Ianto and his grandson. Everyone complaining about Ianto's death, torchwood is about Jack. It is Jack's story continuing from the final Christopher Eccleston doctor who episodes and the whole point of Jack is that everyone he cares about dies and he has to suffer that. Torchwood will NOT be in the future because after all, the twenty first century is when everything changes. And you gotta be ready. *wink*Don't be so depressed about torchwood 3. After all, after series 2 we were sad about Owen and Tosh. If Ianto hadn't died, poor Gareth David-Lloyd would have been stuck in torchwood forever. Have some faith in the writers. Russel T Davies has said that he has enough ideas to write torchwood for another 8 years. It's his, the other writers, the producers and actors and the rest of the torchwood team's job to make the show and our job to be faithful fans….NOT our job to force our ideas into the show. Sit back and relax and wait for series 4 to pop up and, who knows…it might be brilliant!! =D

  168. Anonymous says:

    "…. Russell Davies is under no obligation whatsoever to respect the fans. …"That's an interesting comment. I honestly don't know how it works in the UK, but in the US, at least, the best and most gracious actors (and I believe this goes for writers/producers as well) fully acknowledge that without the fans, their shows wouldn't exist. The fans essentially pay their salaries because without us watching, shows get cancellend.Now, that said, I do *not* think he should bring Ianto back from the dead (I don't think he should have killed him in the first place, but that's just a personal opinion. I respect Davies for the fantastic and powerful piece of writing that CoE was.) What he does need to do is tread lightly with season four, be aware of fan sentiment and give us something we will want to get our hearts involved in again…otherwise there may not be a season five. No doubt at that point there will be other projects, BUT if he really wants to keep Torchwood alive, he needs to be careful about what he does to us or we will simply go and watch something else.

  169. CPJ says:

    I look forward to see what next they will do. I enjoy Torchwood because of its innovation. No bashing on me please.

  170. Anonymous says:

    "……..For all we know this could end up being one of the greatest sci fi love epics ever."Forgive me for saying it, but I don't have that much faith, not after CoE (but I hope you're right and I'm wrong, because *that* would be a Torchwood worth watching!)

  171. Anonymous says:

    I think they should have another come back from the dead, think about Steven, Jack's grandson, he has the same DNA, I even thought that's why he used him to kill the 456. I think Gwen should have twins. The new generation of Torchwood.

    • Jackie Stone says:

      I have to admit, I WOULD watch a new Torchwood IF (and only if) it was about Torchwood 2 or Torchwood 4. We know nothing about either, especially WHAT happened to Torchwood 4? Now these stories I would love to see. Until the current series, the only Torchwood we knew anything about was the Institute at Canary Wharf. Also, I would love to get the story of Ianto's time at Torchwood Institute and his search for Torchwood 3. Not just because I love the king of coffee but because it would help us to see the inner working of Torchwood Institute.

  172. Eva Delong says:

    I've read most of what everyone has said, and what I noticed is that for everone who put the show down, you still watched it and watched it and watched it. It wasn't that you couldn't turn off your set or change the channel there was something about it that kept you glued to watch. I'm looking forward to the new season, just tell me when.

  173. Jackie Stone says:

    Wouldn't surprise me at all if Jack comes back and gets involved with that Johnson character and forgets about Ianto, forgets about Owen and Tosh, forgets about Steven and Alice is no where to be found. That is why I will not watch a new Torchwood. RTD likes to make the characters move on really fast from their pain (ie, Ianto hitting on Jack with a stopwatch so soon after Lisa ). The characters aren't given time to grow and heal before suddenly, whoops! let's give Jack more pain and Gwen more time to talk and talk (I do like her, btw, it's just that Torchwood became about HER).

    • CPJ says:

      You think Jack will forget Ianto, Owen and Tosh after he comes back? No, he will not forget them because they etch in his memories. Hw will carry out the work at Torchwood as long as he has them in his heart. If I were him, i will never forget them, either.

      • Anonymous says:

        Jack will say and do and think exactly what the *writers* say he will. He, as we, are at their mercy.

        • Jackie Stone says:

          Considering exactly how fast everyone moves on in Torchwood, the writers will no doubt have Jack move on pretty quick.

      • Jackie Stone says:

        Oh, I'm sure there will be a comment or 2 made about those lost, but considering how fast everyone is Torchwood moves on (Ianto from Lisa, Gwen from both Owen and Jack, Jack from Gwen, Tosh from Tommy, even to an extent Owen from Diane) I don't see anything lasting long by the way of remembrance of those who died.

  174. Anonymous says:

    woah yes torchwood is back !!!! shame about ianto well he can come back to life some how

  175. Sammie says:

    I admit that I'm happy that there's a new season in the works but I'm still mourning Ianto so I'll be resentful of anyone trying to replace him. I'm really pissed that Gwen gets to live and be pregnant while everyone else dies (seriously, there's so much danger that all my fav characters die and she gets to have a kid? I really just barely tolerated her) I'll give the new season a try because I really love Jack (John is awesome enough for me to watch anything he does) and if he's there I muddle through the fact that Ianto's dead. If it's a truly spectacular first episode I might even continue.What sucks is that I really really loved CoE, it was brilliant. It kept me at the edge of my seat but Ianto's death broke my heart and I don't think I can be fickle enough to tolerate his replacement. While mourning the character I do try to keep in mind that there could be dozens of factors towards why his character was cut off and to be patient with the show. So I'll give the new season a try. Well at least one episode. I'll probably start remembering Ianto's suits and just want to cry or something. So I'm in the camp that will give the new season a chance and a tiny part of me hopes that it can recapture my interest only with less death. I don't think I could take the buildup of loving some truly amazing character (barring Gwen) and watch them die over and over (except Gwen, I wouldn't mind her death. In fact she should have died instead).Also yep, I agree with most people here; there's no need to be rude to your fans. A little respect can hardly hurt anyone. It's a credit to their talent as writers that everyone is in such an uproar about the loss of such a beloved characters (Not Gwen, I really don't like Gwen and I could never figure out why). Sorry for the long run on burp of words.

  176. Anonymous says:

    Okay…after watching Seasons 1 and 2 over the past few days….I will be watching future episodes (Ianto or not). I was completely unaware of the complexity of Jack's character and, although I do hope Ianto comes back, I am intrigued. (my previous comments were too subjective although I still take issue with those that try to equate the show with real life drama and use that as the basis for killing off characters (big wake up call: there's no Time/space rift in real life or weevils or people that "live forever") But I am still intrigued and so I've bought the Dr Who (new series) season one–just to try to understand this Dr. Who universe (and to see Jacks first appearance). As Billy Ocean once sang…."suddenly…..life has new meaning to me….there's beauty up above…and things we never take notice of…" (yes, I need to get out more). – Alex

  177. Shad Gray says:

    First: "Gwen and the Red Shirts"? How, in any form, can Ianto, Tash or Owen be considered "Red Shirts"? To suggest that implies that they never meant anything to the show and anyone who says such a thing should bite their tongue. Red Shirts were people we never saw before, had no invested emotion towards, and were disposable characters. I truly believe that these characters deserve much more respect than that.Im in the US, and still a long time fan of Torchwood, Doctor Who, and even the Sarah Jane Adventures. I was downloading Skins years before it aired on BBC America. Television viewers in the UK are fortunate to have such great shows. American television follows a format that limits death of any main characters. Im subjected to TV here that (with few exceptions) prevents me from any fear that a character I love will leave a show unexpectedly (including, but not limited to death). In the rare cases when a character is killed off, its for ratings (never story) and weeks or months of press (including scenes at the end of the show) reveal these events long before they are set to take place. I grew up on Star Trek and know all to well how comfortable it can be to never have to worry about my favorite characters. But, as much as I love Kirk and Spock (and I do love them), it stole the tension out of scenes where our heroes were in "mortal danger".So many people have negative comments about the deaths of characters they loved on Torchwood. It amazes me that people are so ungreatful to have such amazing programs as they do in the UK. I cried when Tony got hit by the bus in Skins. I cheered when series 2 aired and he was back, only to have my heart crushed watching him try to write T O N Y. They killed Sid's father, and later Chris. I couldn't believe it!Doctor Who has killed companions or stranded them in such ways that they might as well have been killed. The Doctor takes new forms. How is that any different than killing a main character and replacing him in the team with someone new? Yes… I really loved the relationship with Jack and Ianto. I also loved the relationship with Owen and Tash. And each death affected me because Ive come to care about each one of those characters. It reminds me that what they do is dangerous. It reminds me how precious life is, and that what they are doing is important. They are risking themselves so that the world is safer.CoE brought that idea home and it was powerful. Torchwood has teased us for 2 series with the idea of Ianto and Jack finally being together… and then, just as they were on the verge of giving us viewers what we wanted, Ianto was ripped away. We cried as we watched it and felt Jack's pain as our own. This is something that happens in great movies. We spend 2 hours falling in love with a character only to have them die in a lovers arms at the end. When that happens in a movie theater, we don't scream at the writers. We instead walk out of the theaters moved. If we didn't, then we would be upset.I LOVE Torchwood because it gives me the same level of drama and tension (sometimes better) than most cinema. It doesn't hold back. It pulls no punches.Yes, I'm saddened by the loss of one of my favorite characters. Im not sure how the show will go on. But that's part of grieving for someone's death (be it on a show or in real life). Some people live and some people die. Gwen lived. Ianto didn't. I can't help to notice that the idea of asking "Why did it have to be Ianto? Why couldnt it have been Gwen?!?" sounds so much like a person blaming a survivor in real life, when tragedies happen. Perhaps, it is because Gwen's death wouldn't have affected people the same way, that RTD made that choice. If people truly believe Gwen is unimportant, then killing her instead, really would have been a "red shirt" tactic.Bravo to RTD for entertaining me these past three seasons. Thank you for bring characters to life that have moved me as they did, and thank you for series 3 (deaths and all). I don't know if series 4 of Torchwood will be anywhere near as good, but believe me that I'll be there to watch and find out. I won't write off the show until I've seen it. To do so would be like committing suicide after a friend sacrificed themselves to save me. I can't help but to hold on to the belief that the writers would have killed over half the team if they didn't have ideas to keep my interest.

    • Shad Gray says:

      Before I get flamed… Allow me to correct myself. TOSH! (For some reason I kept typing "Tash".)…now flame away! :P

  178. Vinnie Bartilucci says:

    Torchwood was not "The Captain Jack Show", tho it was certainly created to give fans their regular serving of Barrowman. If anything, the show became more and more about Gwen as it went on as she got better and better at her work. There's at least two new potential agents they set up in the series, and there's no reason they couldn't get more.It would be a challenge gettting the audience used to new characters (something they never did with the past series, even tho they lost people throughout) but not impossible. They've already done the "new person getting used to the team" plot with Gwen, so I'd start another series running. Maybe a moment or two of confusion to remind folks that person x is new, but we've already had a new person to learn about the organization with. I think they could do more, but since they did a good job of trashing everything they had, it'd very much be a case of starting over, if not from scratch.

    • Jackie Stone says:

      I agree! It should have been called "Gwen Cooper's Torchwood". As for new character, yeah, they are pretty stuck with the new characters they introduced. I can see Lois falling into Ianto's role and maybe Johnson being a little of Gwen and Jack. Still won't watch it though. Maybe if they had not crammed too much info and had too many plotholes I would, but I prefer quality in a plot. Too much politicalness, death and destruction, not enough Torchwood.

  179. Anonymous says:

    As usual, Ianto fans prove there in dire need of ASBOS more than hoodies. Their behaviour and attitude towards RTD is ridiculous. Fangirls need to be locked up, or shot between the eyes.First of all…what the hell did Ianto even DO? The only reason you obese tarts ever cared about him was that he snogged another guy and made jokes that not even Joey from Friends could elict a strong laugh track from. Owen and Tosh's deaths meant something, but Inato's death mirrored the random nature of life and the true realty of working for Torchwood.If you can't get into the show without characters you adheared to, then sorry, you were never a real fan of the series and you never were a true fan of it's consequences, of which were laid out for you chavs a billion times through dialouge you took for granted because you thought this team would be the exception to the rule. It doesnt work like that. TW sticks to it's guns and I commend them for it. SOMEONE has to take a stand in this repugnant, "feed the babes with a silver spoon and tell them everything is safe" era of television.You want Ianto back? GO BACK AND WATCH NOEL'S HOUSE PARTY, WE WON'T MISS YOU. I have been a loyal fan of Channel 4 teen series Skins since it's inception, it has changed it's ENTIRE cast, and is expected to do so again. I will miss the characters I was raised on, I will miss the characters I have come to love now…but the stories remain engaging and new characters for new series will have their own tales to tell, and I will gravitate to them just as easily. No harm, no fowel, just great television that keeps me thinking and keeps me informed of every ill turn in social corners.Anyone who can't adhear themselves to story over character is a decrepid imbecile who ought to get out and find a job in real life, because heaven forbid escapist telly will never grow up until THEY do.

    • mike weber says:

      Wow. Maturity, proper spelling and correct grammar.Not.Listen, wanker, about all you've proven with this incoherent rant is that you're a lame loser with no real life.

      • Anonymous says:

        Thank you for saying it so well!

      • Jackie Stone says:

        Yeah, especially since he thinks all those upset are "obese tarts". Sorry, Honey, but I am not obese, I just REALLY like the OLD Torchwood. I, and everyone on here, am entitled to my opinion, so go play in traffic all ready. Or go back to your parents' basement and continue to be obese yourself.

        • mike weber says:

          Of course, the really amusing part is that – without being combative or insulting or doubtin the intelligence or sanity of (most of) the people who think the other way, i'm kinda with the camp that thinks that "I'll never watch 'Torchwood' again." is a tad of an over-reaction until we have at least a bit of whatever comes next to judge.(I've watched the first three episodes of "Children", BTW, and i expect the disk with the rest from Netflix tomorrow.What's-her-name {the government op} was right about one thing, though – if i had any doubt that that was Jack's daughter, her escape attempt would have removed it.)

          • Anonymous says:

            I agree, saying "I'll never watch it again" is a pretty extreme knee-jerk reaction. I understand that some people were truly devistated, me included, but for my part, I just want RTD to handle the next season with a little more sensitivity. I want him to make the effort to win us back.I'll watch to see what he does, but if it isn't good enough, I won't bother wasting my time or make the time to watch on a regular basis.

          • Anonymous says:

            Ditto.

  180. Len says:

    I'm not going to be watching. CoE really turned me off the show- they've killed off all the characters I liked, all the characters that are actually -interesting-, so why bother?Torchwood's Jack seems a whiny, insensitive bitch to me, and I don't find Gwen very likeable. I was watching for Tosh and Ianto, and now that they're gone, so am I.

  181. Anonymous says:

    All of you (I would say most especially Jackie Stone) really amuse me with your angst and whines but it is really old. It is about exasperating now.