After much discussion with friends and the unwashed and bewildered, today I have decided to weigh in (again) on one of the many ongoing and irresolvable debates that have haunted the hallowed halls of comics academia since time immemorial. The question: when the instigator of a series retires from his or her creation, should the series be retired as well?
It seems a lot of creators and many fans think it should. To this, I say “ka-ka.”
I understand that a creator’s vision is important, and I strongly feel that creator should have the word on continuing the feature. For many creators, such choice was denied to them when they signed their publishing contracts. That was exploitative. Today, well, creators should know better. And many do: there are financial advantages to allowing a continuation of the feature, and there’s the idea that, to quote John Ostrander from the Stuart Gordon play Bloody Bess, “My words… my words shall live forever.” It should be the creator’s call, and there’s nothing wrong with deciding either way. Of course, after you drop dead your estate will likely overrule you, but that’s a matter between the dead you and your living family.
Aesthetically… well, that’s another matter. Bitch and moan all you want, but the replacements generally work out pretty well.
If DC retired Batman when Bob Kane left the character 40 years ago, we never would have had the masterworks of Dennis O’Neil, Steve Englehart, Neal Adams, Marshall Rogers, Frank Miller and a legion of other superlative storytellers. Carl Burgos and Bill Everett were not involved in the Marvel Age resurrections of their Human Torch and Sub-Mariner (respectively), but all those Lee and Kirby stories sure were swell. Spider-Man didn’t truly take off until after Steve Ditko left; John Romita, Gil Kane and many others took Peter Parker to heights previously unimagined by the publisher.
The trap is in the changing times: some successors deal with it better than the creators. After making all kinds of successful technological predictions, Chester Gould’s classic Dick Tracy started a pretty swift downhill slide in 1963 when Chet was convinced that “the nation that controlled magnetism would control the world.” Setting aside the desirability of such an action, this concept led to the police cruiser space coupé, one-man flying buckets, and several trips to the moon that resulted in the marriage of Junior Tracy to the Moon Maid. Hardly the same enhanced reality strip that put Dick Tracy on the front page of Sunday newspapers all across the nation. When Chet retired some 15 years later, successors Max Allan Collins and Rick Fletcher returned the strip to its roots by stressing urban crime and detection while restoring the focus on the characters and their family – and by killing off the Moon Maid and never mentioning magnetism or the moon again.
Which brings us to The Spirit. It appears some people were disappointed by Darwyn Cooke’s recent performance on the resurrected title, perhaps, in part, due to the high standard he set in The New Frontier. Maybe so, but the problem wasn’t in Cooke’s daring to follow in Will Eisner’s footsteps. After all, Will repeatedly decided to let others take on his creation: most notably, Jules Feiffer and Wally Wood, two genuine masters-in-the-making. Darwyn’s prerequisite attempt to bring the feature into modern times might not have met with some diehards’ approval, but I think that reaction wallows in nostalgia and not objectivity. Darwyn Cooke was a perfectly legitimate choice for the first year’s run of the revived classic, just inspired as the team of Sergio Aragonés, Mark Evanier and Mike Ploog is for the second.
Like it or not, these characters have become part of our cultural fabric and will, as a matter of course, be tailored by different hands. The challenge is not in the concept, but in the execution.
ComicMix's award-winning and spectacularly shy editor-in-chief Mike Gold also performs the weekly two-hour Weird Sounds Inside The Gold Mind ass-kicking rock, blues and blather radio show on The Point, www.getthepointradio.com and on iNetRadio, www.iNetRadio.com (search: Hit Oldies) every Sunday at 7:00 PM Eastern, rebroadcast three times during the week – check www.getthepointradio.com above for times and on-demand streaming information.
It's noteworthy that Kitchen Sink's "New Adventures of the Spirit" came out some time before Eisner's death, so apparently he relented edventually. (And further worth noting that "Last Night I Dreamed of Dr Cobra" by Alan Moore and i-forget-who is, in my opinion, the single best "Spirit" story i have ever read – even better than Eisner's own favourite, "Gerhard Shnobble, the Man Who Could Fly"…)To be honest, my biggest gripe with the new "Spirit" issues was radical changes in established characters – specifically Silk Satin, who was made virtually the diametric opposite of Eisner's original – small, compact, blonde, mother of a child who had died, CIA agent vs. tall, almost "amazonian" brunette with a child definitely alive, international adventuress/insurance company troubleshooter.My reaction whenever that sort of thing happens – usually in a movie "adaptation" – is "If you wanted a completely different character, why didn't you take one small additional step and give them a different name, too?"(Of course, putting the Spirit and Sand Saref in bed struck a false note for me, and i reallt thought that giving P'Gell a backstory was unnecessary, at least…)While i may sound as if i have nothing but complaints, it's just that the things that jarred like that jarred *hard*, and the Spirit is special for me.Haven't been able to get to my comic shop in a while, but i am lookiong forward to the Aragones/Evanier/Ploog "Spirit" with bated breath. (Nice to see Mike Ploog's name again on a comic from a major publisher, too.)
I would point out that the character in Bloody Bess who says, "My words shall live forever. . ." immediately has his throat cut by another character who disdainfully replies, "Your WORDS."I think there's no hard and fast rule on the continuation of a series. No one else has done PEANUTS as a strip since Charles Schultz passed away. OTOH, I've worked and re-worked any number of characters and/or concepts long after their originators left. Sometimes not so long — my first big comics job was following Mike Grell on STARSLAYER. I seem to remember you (as my editor) reminding me at the time that if Iron Mike didn't care for what I did he would let me know AND that he had more guns than some third world countries.I'd be more leery of further SPIRIT stories is Eisner himself hadn't opened it up some years ago. Tom Mandrake and I were among those at the time who were tapped to do a SPIRIT pastiche. Since Mr. Eisner gave his permission and blessing for further SPIRIT adventures, who am I to quibble with that decision? And i have certainly benefitted from George Lucas' decision to let others play in his STAR WARS sandbox.Where the creator doesn't own the copyright and/or trademark, I think it's a given there will be more stories on a given character. If the creator, however, DOES own the property and they DON'T want further exploitation/exploration of that character, I think that should also be their right. I'm sorry that CALVIN AND HOBBES was taken off the market but I certainly don't question his right to do so. And perhaps its better that way. Like I said, I don't think there's a standard rule.
"I would point out that the character in Bloody Bess who says, 'My words shall live forever. . .' immediately has his throat cut by another character who disdainfully replies, 'Your WORDS.'"Indeed. But there was a performance where YOU played the writer hanging upside down from the yardarm, with his throat about to be slit by the pirate, as played by William J Norris, your co-writer. And on THAT occasion, you said "My words shall live forever" and your co-writer started sawing at your throat, muttering "Your words? YOUR words, you FAT turkey?" One of the finest moments on stage. I still want to adapt Bloody Bess to comics. And thanks for the set-up.
Chet was right about a whole lotta stuff — Dick Tracy was one of the first (some say the first) ongoing police procedurals, and he was way ahead on a great many technological advances, not to mention the trench coat. But the early sixties he invented the flying magnetic police bucket and then he took Dick Tracy to the moon. That's pretty wacky for a police procedural. Although it might get Law & Order another season…
I loved those anti-gravity buckets. I wanted one so bad. Where's my damn flying car or personal jet pack? This is not the future I signed up for — and the problem with those darn wrist radios is people keep calling you all the time.
Will you settle for a Segway? You can race the Chicago Police through Grant Park.By the way, the Segway was invented by Dale Kamen, son of the classic EC horror artist Jack Kamen. I love that.
Dean Kamen also invented the iBot, which I would like. I'm going to start whining at the doctors again. I want to be able to go to museums and fairs and maybe even malls. It would make things a lot easier if I could cross grass or gravel.http://www.ibotnow.com/
Darwyn Cooke was signed to do the 1st 2 years of The Spirit. He did 10 issues. I am SO angry about that, but not angry at him, if that makes sense. Today's market is essentially slanted toward drooling knuckledraggers. A pox on them, I say. Give me quality. The perfect example is the movie Independence Day. I tried to watch it, found it totally lacking, yet several acquaintances tell me how great it is. Blechh. Gimme quality, dammit.
Don't get me started on INDEPENDENCE DAY. That film is so many layers of stupid I couldn't plumb them all. I had friends try to tell me to just put my mind in netral and relax — it was just a popcorn movie. I did try. It wouldn't let me. It defied my willing suspension of disbelief. So did the second ZORRO movie with Antonio Banderas. And the GODZILLA remake with Matthew Broderick. This is from the guy who sat through JESUS CHRIST, VAMPIRE HUNTER.
Apparently comics are better at continuing with a different artist than books are. I can't think of a series of SF books that's been continued by anybody other than the author that's any good. (That doesn't mean some of them aren't bestsellers.)
I can think of one example in the pulps, but it's a doozy: The Spider. R.T.M. Scott's initial stories were quite good, but Norvell Page's were far superior. Ernie Tepperman and Wayne Rogers had some really solid contributions. Great stuff.
Great discussion. I will always bear the damage of trying to do what I hoped would endear Will's creation to a new generation and I have many sleepless nights about my tinkering.If I may. though—I did always try to leave a certain 'out' for the longtime fan. For example, P'Gell is the world's most famous seductress. That whole story she gave Denny could have been a total pile. Silk was my favorite of them all. The readers as well. Wildstorm actually wanted to do a spin-off mini with her solo. I never have felt the exact occupation, nationality, or even race of a character was sacrosanct…I look for the core of the personality as constructed by the creator. Satin and Spirit were competitive equals, in the tradition of Tracy and Hepburn and that was the key to her for me. And who's to say her child is dead? She certainly thinks she is, but we had a second year of stories that we never got to tell.This is offered less as a defense and more an explanation. With something this monumental it is always going to be a roll of the dice. A final note- Hello Mr. Ostrander. I'm just a longtime fan that would like to say hi.Best regards,Darwyn
For my money and enjoyment, Darwyn, you need no defense. Your SPIRIT issues were top quality entertainment. The stories were fun and the art and storytelling was frighteningly good. And as far as I'm concerned I was reading your SPIRIT not Eisner's SPIRIT. No one could ever take Eisner's SPIRIT away from us (unless they burned a lot of comics). The only thing I don't like is that we will not be seeing your second year on the SPIRIT. But I have no doubt that I'll enjoy your next project, no matter what it is.
It's noteworthy that Kitchen Sink's "New Adventures of the Spirit" came out some time before Eisner's death, so apparently he relented edventually. (And further worth noting that "Last Night I Dreamed of Dr Cobra" by Alan Moore and i-forget-who is, in my opinion, the single best "Spirit" story i have ever read – even better than Eisner's own favourite, "Gerhard Shnobble, the Man Who Could Fly"…)To be honest, my biggest gripe with the new "Spirit" issues was radical changes in established characters – specifically Silk Satin, who was made virtually the diametric opposite of Eisner's original – small, compact, blonde, mother of a child who had died, CIA agent vs. tall, almost "amazonian" brunette with a child definitely alive, international adventuress/insurance company troubleshooter.My reaction whenever that sort of thing happens – usually in a movie "adaptation" – is "If you wanted a completely different character, why didn't you take one small additional step and give them a different name, too?"(Of course, putting the Spirit and Sand Saref in bed struck a false note for me, and i reallt thought that giving P'Gell a backstory was unnecessary, at least…)While i may sound as if i have nothing but complaints, it's just that the things that jarred like that jarred *hard*, and the Spirit is special for me.Haven't been able to get to my comic shop in a while, but i am lookiong forward to the Aragones/Evanier/Ploog "Spirit" with bated breath. (Nice to see Mike Ploog's name again on a comic from a major publisher, too.)
I would point out that the character in Bloody Bess who says, "My words shall live forever. . ." immediately has his throat cut by another character who disdainfully replies, "Your WORDS."I think there's no hard and fast rule on the continuation of a series. No one else has done PEANUTS as a strip since Charles Schultz passed away. OTOH, I've worked and re-worked any number of characters and/or concepts long after their originators left. Sometimes not so long — my first big comics job was following Mike Grell on STARSLAYER. I seem to remember you (as my editor) reminding me at the time that if Iron Mike didn't care for what I did he would let me know AND that he had more guns than some third world countries.I'd be more leery of further SPIRIT stories is Eisner himself hadn't opened it up some years ago. Tom Mandrake and I were among those at the time who were tapped to do a SPIRIT pastiche. Since Mr. Eisner gave his permission and blessing for further SPIRIT adventures, who am I to quibble with that decision? And i have certainly benefitted from George Lucas' decision to let others play in his STAR WARS sandbox.Where the creator doesn't own the copyright and/or trademark, I think it's a given there will be more stories on a given character. If the creator, however, DOES own the property and they DON'T want further exploitation/exploration of that character, I think that should also be their right. I'm sorry that CALVIN AND HOBBES was taken off the market but I certainly don't question his right to do so. And perhaps its better that way. Like I said, I don't think there's a standard rule.
"I would point out that the character in Bloody Bess who says, 'My words shall live forever. . .' immediately has his throat cut by another character who disdainfully replies, 'Your WORDS.'"Indeed. But there was a performance where YOU played the writer hanging upside down from the yardarm, with his throat about to be slit by the pirate, as played by William J Norris, your co-writer. And on THAT occasion, you said "My words shall live forever" and your co-writer started sawing at your throat, muttering "Your words? YOUR words, you FAT turkey?" One of the finest moments on stage. I still want to adapt Bloody Bess to comics. And thanks for the set-up.
The only time I ever liked Dick Tracy was when they went to the moon. And Chet was basically right about two-way wrist radios.
Chet was right about a whole lotta stuff — Dick Tracy was one of the first (some say the first) ongoing police procedurals, and he was way ahead on a great many technological advances, not to mention the trench coat. But the early sixties he invented the flying magnetic police bucket and then he took Dick Tracy to the moon. That's pretty wacky for a police procedural. Although it might get Law & Order another season…
I loved those anti-gravity buckets. I wanted one so bad. Where's my damn flying car or personal jet pack? This is not the future I signed up for — and the problem with those darn wrist radios is people keep calling you all the time.
Will you settle for a Segway? You can race the Chicago Police through Grant Park.By the way, the Segway was invented by Dale Kamen, son of the classic EC horror artist Jack Kamen. I love that.
Dean Kamen also invented the iBot, which I would like. I'm going to start whining at the doctors again. I want to be able to go to museums and fairs and maybe even malls. It would make things a lot easier if I could cross grass or gravel.http://www.ibotnow.com/
Darwyn Cooke was signed to do the 1st 2 years of The Spirit. He did 10 issues. I am SO angry about that, but not angry at him, if that makes sense. Today's market is essentially slanted toward drooling knuckledraggers. A pox on them, I say. Give me quality. The perfect example is the movie Independence Day. I tried to watch it, found it totally lacking, yet several acquaintances tell me how great it is. Blechh. Gimme quality, dammit.
Don't get me started on INDEPENDENCE DAY. That film is so many layers of stupid I couldn't plumb them all. I had friends try to tell me to just put my mind in netral and relax — it was just a popcorn movie. I did try. It wouldn't let me. It defied my willing suspension of disbelief. So did the second ZORRO movie with Antonio Banderas. And the GODZILLA remake with Matthew Broderick. This is from the guy who sat through JESUS CHRIST, VAMPIRE HUNTER.
Apparently comics are better at continuing with a different artist than books are. I can't think of a series of SF books that's been continued by anybody other than the author that's any good. (That doesn't mean some of them aren't bestsellers.)
I can think of one example in the pulps, but it's a doozy: The Spider. R.T.M. Scott's initial stories were quite good, but Norvell Page's were far superior. Ernie Tepperman and Wayne Rogers had some really solid contributions. Great stuff.
Great discussion. I will always bear the damage of trying to do what I hoped would endear Will's creation to a new generation and I have many sleepless nights about my tinkering.If I may. though—I did always try to leave a certain 'out' for the longtime fan. For example, P'Gell is the world's most famous seductress. That whole story she gave Denny could have been a total pile. Silk was my favorite of them all. The readers as well. Wildstorm actually wanted to do a spin-off mini with her solo. I never have felt the exact occupation, nationality, or even race of a character was sacrosanct…I look for the core of the personality as constructed by the creator. Satin and Spirit were competitive equals, in the tradition of Tracy and Hepburn and that was the key to her for me. And who's to say her child is dead? She certainly thinks she is, but we had a second year of stories that we never got to tell.This is offered less as a defense and more an explanation. With something this monumental it is always going to be a roll of the dice. A final note- Hello Mr. Ostrander. I'm just a longtime fan that would like to say hi.Best regards,Darwyn
For my money and enjoyment, Darwyn, you need no defense. Your SPIRIT issues were top quality entertainment. The stories were fun and the art and storytelling was frighteningly good. And as far as I'm concerned I was reading your SPIRIT not Eisner's SPIRIT. No one could ever take Eisner's SPIRIT away from us (unless they burned a lot of comics). The only thing I don't like is that we will not be seeing your second year on the SPIRIT. But I have no doubt that I'll enjoy your next project, no matter what it is.